"Nothing 'actual' in the modern world is no more" magazine "Power» № 7 (911) from

[Jukov]

"Nothing 'actual' in the modern world is no more"
Magazine Vlast »№ 7 (911) from 21.02.2011
Magazine Vlast »№ 7 (911) from 21.02.2011



Curator of the Russian pavilion at the upcoming Venice Biennale of contemporary art became a theoretician Boris Groys. The correspondent of "Power" Anna Tolstova asked him about what the Moscow conceptualist art can be fun today.

Boris Groys - the philosopher and theorist of contemporary art, critic and curator. He studied mathematical logic at the Mathematics and Mechanics Faculty of Leningrad University and worked at the Department of Structural and Applied Linguistics, Moscow State University, in the mid 1970's - early 1980's printed articles critical of himself and tamizdatovsky magazines, and in 1981 he emigrated to Germany. Taught Slavic philosophy of art and mediateoriyu in many universities in Europe and America. Author of numerous publications on contemporary art and new media. One of the most authoritative interpreters of the world's Russian avant-garde, socialist realism and Moscow Conceptualism.

Why does exhibition in the Russian pavilion you chose Andrew Monastery and a group of "collective action"?

Andrew Monastery - an artist with a consistent system of creativity and a very clear logic of development that are important not only for Russian art. It's pretty rare - not only in Russia but throughout the world - a phenomenon. What he was doing, action-events involving many of the project participants and spectators, bore the participatory nature and it is now the most fashionable. Art, which now attracted worldwide attention, is not related to the production of things, and the production of events. Things are already too many. You can say that's too much, but it only seems that way: there are plenty of other activities, but not what we are used to refer to the idea of intellectual activity. And some advances, I do not want to say "avant-garde, the cultural effects of modern mass culture is declining. And the art system in its conceptual or postkontseptualnoy side represents the territory in which can accommodate music, poetry, philosophy - anything that does not fall into the mass-medial area. So postkontseptualnaya participatory practices are now revived, including socio-economic reasons. Yes, it's going to return to conceptual art, but does not return anything. And just what did Andrew Monastery, now returned.

In Russia, many people think that Ilya Kabakov became a star worldwide, including because you failed to explain his art to the West. Why does the entire range of the Moscow conceptualist Ilya Kabakov it was in demand in late 1980 - early 1990's?

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I can not say it's my credit, it does not. I think the success of Ilya Kabakov explained by the fact that he was in those years, proposed the concept of the installation. Then talked about this a lot, but consistently do not do. If you look at the installation of the time, they are more like assemblages - placing a group of objects in space. Total installation, that is, the transfiguration of the entire space, making the whole space in the field of art, while virtually no one did. When Ilya Kabakov came to the West, his idea of total installation made a strong impression his radicalism. I remember when I was his first exhibition in New York in 1988, it stood in the queue, that of New York at all unusual: it produced a shock on the art world seems no one has done this. Immediately showered with offers - all major museums like the same total installation.

PHOTO: Alexander Shcherbakov, Kommersant

Andrew Monastery. "Shadow of a hare, or a hundred years Brentano"

Archive of "collective action" in the Russian pavilion in Venice will also be presented as a total installation?

Yes, in our time of any artistic or curatorial project is not conceived of except in the form of installation. But it will not install in kabakovskom sense, which is a holistic, total work of art. This will be a space in which the artist's life is shown as art.

How are you going to represent Andrew Monastery and the "collective action" in Venice: as relevant now as art or art of the past, which should enter into a world-historical context?

You know, the concept of actual need, as it is fashionable now to say, "deconstruct." Nothing like that "actual" in the modern world is no more, because there is clearly the notion of historical progress. Currently co-exist practices that vary in time and place of origin: Kabakov, romanticism, baroque, Aboriginal art in Australia. Now we not only an era of globalization, but also the era of transtemporal. This is a typical post-modern phenomenon - because postmodernism has not been canceled, even though about it and do not like to say now. So that by itself the criterion of relevance does not seem to me a valid criterion. Applicable criterion for me is the criterion of relevance. That is, I want to show in Venice that, in some sense relevant. If you look at a selection of other curators of the national pavilions - they invite people connected with the history of performance, with a history of staging the event. For example, in the German pavilion - Christoph Schlingensief, he died, so that current can not be, but is still relevant.

Is it easy to translate the art of "collective action" on the international art language? Enough for this to translate into English the volume of documentation "of trips to town or need some more complex interpretive operation?

Nothing needs to be translated, oversimplify and flattens. The people are not stupid. People come to the Biennale of experienced, skilled enough to assess the artistic practices, and they quickly grasp such things. Now taken a look at the art of the 1970's as the area from which you can draw a genealogy of modern art. West hopes to open in this area for some new figures on the other side of the Iron Curtain: expected a large exhibition Mladlena Stilinovicha - very interesting Serbo-Croatian conceptualist, a lot of attention to conceptualist practices in Poland late 1960 - early 1970's. Interest to practitioners of behavioral and event grows everywhere.

In the article "Moscow romantic conceptualism", written in the late 1970's, you said that modern Western art is engaged in the world, and contemporary Russian - the other world. Interesting and demanded whether the metaphysical dimension of Moscow Conceptualism today?

When I spoke on metaphysics in the Moscow conceptualism, there was an element of irony. The idea was that art, unlike Western, was not militant, was not focused on the invasion of life. By the way, Russia was a group with activist stance. This group of "Movement", which are also now many in the West are interested. But for the Moscow conceptualist social engagement has not been characterized. For him, it was characterized by a desire to build an alternative system of art: to create an alternative space, alternative institutions, an alternative public - in general, create an "alternative art". In those years it was the metaphysical project of the intelligentsia, if you want. But in our time, such projects have multiplied throughout the world. There are basically two types of relationship to social reality: one activist, is the desire to improve this Available from society, and the other is connected with an attempt to extend the concept of society and to create in unoccupied areas and some alternative social structures.


"Collective Action". Action "a work of fine art - painting"

In other words, the development of Russian avant-garde ideas about building a new society, but at a time when the avant-garde project in real-Soviet history has failed?

There is no doubt. Initially, we talked about what postkontseptualistsky installation project - this place territorialization musical, literary and other practices. And, of course, is the place territorialization of political practices. Today, radical ideas - the communist ideas, the same Alain Badiou and Jacques Ranciere, radical-nationalist ideas, even radical Islam - are finding themselves socially legitimized place on this platform postkontseptualistskoy art system. This is the territory in which they operate socially. All modern ideological currents that do not fit into the mainstream, finding a place there. And it's not really new. The historical analogy is obvious. Look at the beginning of the XIX century: the collapse of the French Revolution, political projects have moved into the region of the poetics of Romanticism, wandered into a zone of artistic practices. And by the way, the Romantics artistic practice, too, was seen as vital. The same thing is happening now: the beginning of the XXI century has practically completely coincides with the beginning of XIX - the emergence of liberal-conservative society after the collapse of the secular utopian ideas. And the reaction to this modern art is very similar to the reaction of romantic circles in Europe. Take the "Neue Rheinische newspaper in 1848. Here are three of the author: Marx, who escapes to London, Wagner, who escapes to Switzerland, and Heine, who fled to Paris. Marx wrote that communism - it is work turned into art, Wagner writes about the Gesamtkunstwerk as a region of the communist community, and so on. Displacement of political zone to art is the result of any failed revolution.

What can you say about art and political activism, which is now very fashionable in Russia? Maybe from a political point of view the group "War" is more appropriate than the "collective action"?

From London, I can say that the activities of the "War" is difficult to identify the socio-politically engaged art as it is commonly understood in the West. Under the socio-political engagement means democratization of the artistic process: what art is connected with the involvement of the general population in the direct participation in the project. What makes "War" - is by its very nature an elitist gesture, and he also aims to create an alternative public space. Therefore, alternative audience in Russia, which is an elitist phenomenon, like "war". But such labeling space of alternative is not the dominant strategy of the modern socio-political art. Quite the contrary. About the political art can say the following: the artist is at the intersection of the two time coordinates, he is in a very long tradition of art, and he lives in modern times, and usually a good artist is in control both coordinates.

PHOTO: AFP

Giovanni Lorenzo Bernini. "Ecstasy of St. Theresa

Hence, political art in the Western sense in Russia is simply not?

Maybe I simply do not know. Maybe political art in the conventional sense is engaged in the group "What do I do?". Or maybe not. Anyway, it seems to me that in Russia there is no coherent project of democratization of art. In this project of democratization of art in the West is criticized, it would be naive to think that he is dominant and all progressive mankind loves it politically biased democratic art. Because democratization of art is largely a concession to mass taste, and as time advances of the artistic community in the West refers to this with great skepticism. Projects e-flux, and many others are aimed at the creation of alternative social structures.

School history of Russian art has accustomed us to think that it is in its development - from Venetsianov with his peasant school, from the Wanderers to the avant-garde - just followed the path of democratization. Now sociologists are inclined to see art in the Wanderers is not so much unselfish educators and social democrats, I thought Stasov how successful bourgeois entrepreneurs. Can now Russian avant-garde, with its slogan "Art - to the masses" to hold the position of democratic art?

Russian avant-garde has never been a democratic art, he has always been an art-oriented transformation of society, but at the same time, guided by thousands of years of artistic tradition. Therefore, he used arguments that were not understood by the authorities. Authorities did not understand why it is necessary to draw the triangles and squares. She explained: because it is innovative in the history of art. But in order to understand the essence of the avant-garde of the revolution, we must know the history of art. Avant-garde strategy of continued innovation in art, search for some alternative ways of art, and this problem is not widespread. I think that now is beginning to change thanks to the Internet, where everyone does their web site and gets Facebook. The masses are beginning to be interested in avant-garde art as close to practice and to identify with them through their experience. Take Facebook - it is ready to show postkontseptualnogo art. At the time, Walter Benjamin rightly wrote that through film and installation of cubism became a mass art. Likewise, we can say that through Facebook and the website of contemporary and conceptual art postkontseptualnoe begins to enter the mass and becomes a component of mass taste.

[Vladimir]

Сообщение от Jukov

You know, the concept of actual need, as it is fashionable now to say," deconstruct. " Nothing like that "actual" in the modern world is no more, because there is clearly the notion of historical progress. Currently co-exist practices that vary in time and place of origin: Kabakov, romanticism, baroque, Aboriginal art in Australia. Now we not only an era of globalization, but also the era of transtemporal. This is a typical post-modern phenomenon - because postmodernism has not been canceled, even though about it and do not like to say now. So that by itself the criterion of relevance does not seem to me a valid criterion. Applicable criterion for me is the criterion of relevance. That is, I want to show in Venice that, in a sense, is relevant

Very good interview. This way, the answer to the question, why now can not single out any one backbone ideas why the exhibitions are not coming enlightenment. Because a lot of ideas.

[Art-lover]

Сообщение от fross

As far as the material of art performances and installations more vulnerable in terms of assessing the audience, perhaps why it is so popular the last steel? After them, there is nothing left except the retellings of how they were beautiful. That is, I want to ask them consciously created in order to avoid the possibility of being repeatedly reproduced and seen anyone and at any time for a critical evaluation?

fross, that's what you would have answered Genosse Groys:

Сообщение от Groys

Art, which now attracted worldwide attention, is not related to the production of things, and the production of events. Things are already too many.

What you could argue that the picture may well be an event, and b.ch. installation called event language does not turn. At this Groys has stated that the picture even less pull on the event, for which he wound aesthetically stung by a spectator. And then you kiss him to the wall of words that shame the artist forever nail to the wall of the museum, and bordering on hatred, indifference to the audience and informansam perstallyatsiyam Staging latest camouflage false reports. Then Boris, rubbing his head, will give the final argument: the pier, and installation can be quite tangible and accessible at any time for a critical evaluation ", and the proof will send you here. Then, glancing out the window, he will say something about the dismal February afternoon, a hot toddy as a criterion and of the pleasure to translate the conversation into another format.
By the way, that it's there you even uttered?

Сообщение от Vladimir; 1538671"

Very good interview. This way, the answer to the question, why now can not single out any one backbone ideas why the exhibitions are not coming enlightenment. Because a lot of ideas.

Similarly, no lights up. But not because a lot of ideas, but the opposite: quite a few that deserves to be called the idea - more popcorn. Here I agree with Groys :

Сообщение от Groys

You can say that's too much, but it only seems that way: there are plenty of other activities, but not what we are used to refer to the idea of intellectual activity.

[Самвел]

Can ideas and many, but here's the imagination disappears. People do not have time for conversation with yourself, everyone knows what they want, no imagination, no accidents, only a direct path to success, or to find their daily bread. Now that-be to leave the house, we must take the car keys, passport, certificate of water, various papers, business cards, telephone, melefon, etc., and at any moment can be here so just call and invade your life, hundreds of people who know your number, from time to sit and enjoy yourself with all sorts of thoughts, so when the whole diversity of today's very, very poorly, I think so. Ideas may come quickly, instantly, like a thought, but it takes time for the imagination, and then bekonechno imagination, but the idea seems to say is limited in time. Therefore, probably a lot of ideas, but no insight.

[Vladimir]

Of course, the audience wants clarity.
Order as before: to the left - a classic, right - the vanguard.
Like-dislike, but it is clear where and what.
Now, life does not have that luxury.
The viewer has the most to filter plankton and the larger substrate.
And not just viewers.

[Art-lover]

Сообщение от Vladimir

Of course, the audience wants clarity. Order as before: to the left - a classic, right - the vanguard. Like-dislike, but it is clear where and what. Now, life does not have that luxury. The viewer has the most to filter plankton and the larger substrate. And not just viewers.

The modern viewer is accustomed to despise the classification, and he knows that if the cage is hanging the label "Donkey", then there is likely not even a lion, and some unimaginable mutant. If zveryuha cool, I mean, is relevant, then the viewer can induce cells to interperetatsiyu content.
Not to clear to achieve clarity - kitty, kitty there, or bow-wow - but in terms of manifestations of activism (cage in a piece of cheese or a grenade), or partitsipatsii - to climb into the cage and start building a life together with its inhabitants (m . is, in Groys, to carry out a transfer to an alternative social space).
Such is the neprinuzhdayuschy choice postkontseptualnom artist. space - is not a luxurious life for the viewer and not only? ))

[Jukov]

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