[fabosch]

Сообщение от Stanislavski

I'll try. To do this, use the analogy with music, art, the most "abstract" available to our perception. Than we do measure our "dignity of a musical work? Those criteria that are developed tradition: the musical form, the wealth of topics and depth of its development, sound and coloring, etc. That is all that dwells in the space of a certain modal-sound context. But the famous concert of Cage, which has not played a single note, it turns out that context. Does this mean that the product Keyzhda is not music, but shioe - art? It seems to me. that the creation of Cage - an extreme degree of abstraction in art, going beyond the limits of our assessment tools. And to appreciate it, you need to "measure" entirely different yardstick.

Now I understand what you are. Well, the Cage is a certain analogy to the iso - for example, black square. And, say, "Ready-Made 's Duchamp - analogue in music - specifically music." Yes, here you are right. Pointless to discuss the composition and pictorial merits Black Square
(Though some of it quite the same deal). Of course it also has composite features, and color-textured subtlety simply by virtue of the fact that this painting. But in Malevich, and Duchamp, and then many others in large quantities from the start of 1960 (Boyce, Land Art, Minimalism, Arte Povera, etc.) there is a new dimension, which in the old slide rule does not present. Well, in impressionist, say, too, was a new shkalka on the ruler, which was not up to them. And Uccello is not it? It now seems that this is not new line appeared, and simply dividing by the scale were added, and at that time it was also a sort of black square.
Yes, now it seems that in the 20 century there was overriding the boundaries of art. Maybe the way it is, but I think this issue goes far beyond the boundaries of the topic and even some scary it is to begin to develop

Сообщение от Stanislavski

By the way, did not meet you fully educated and experienced in painting people, "the cognitive field, which was limited to figurative painting, and if it comes to abstraction, they immediately lost their foothold?

You bet. Yes I do, honestly, not so far away from them, how you would like. Consciousness clings to the figurative as a safe haven - all the time have to fight

Added after 4 minutes

Сообщение от Art-lover

I have with the word "psychoanalysis" of the quagmire subconscious pops the word "surreal." )

And I have "finger reaches for the trigger"

Сообщение от Art-lover

True, perhaps, in the middle: in the abstract surrealism. This is an interesting direction after a short way - in the early 1940's - has been supplanted by abstract expressionism. In my opinion, because for American artists could not pull it (a pity. Somehow I'll return to this issue).

But with this place can be more detail - is anyone out there, "the helper"?