A. DYKHOVICHNY: People uninitiated, perhaps, not very clear what was there. There is restoration of paintings. How can there be corruption? ..
B. ROSCHIN: Yes, yes, yes, I understand you. Grabar Center - an amazing institution, authoritative. They make the restoration of valuable paintings, icons and so on. In other words, cultural values. And they have outstanding expertise in painting, to works of art, which are huge money. Colossal. Look, the point was. I will read out one of the hits, there are two words: "My appeal to you forced" - a person appeals to the Minister ...
A. DYKHOVICHNY: A man - who is this? Collector?
B. ROSCHIN: This is a collector, the client does not know. «
My stimulated appeal to you - a copy of the letter, you see, print, stamp, all there is - was the result of blatant extortion Head of Scientific Expertise Centre Grabar Kiseleva» . This I will first statement. Second ...
A. DYKHOVICHNY: No, well, people may be somewhat dissatisfied. He thought that he had the original, but it was a fake. So he got angry.
B. ROSCHIN: No, it is about extortion. And then the original. I'm talking about extortion speech. There is no need today to transfer to another mainstream conversation. It is about extortion. The second complaint I read you, even so, one can say, without complaint, and the statement:
«For everyone - people, in my opinion, each other almost did not even know - it is clear that within the walls of public institutions actually thriving little private mistress Kiseleva. I have no glasses, you see, can not so ... forgot his glasses. Well, look, here is a statement, also refers people to the minister, a member of the center, not the client, as you said, no: "I consider it my professional duty to address you in connection with the situation in the center of Grabar, - and so more. And she is here on three sheets show, tells what is happening there.
A. DYKHOVICHNY: What is the main essence of the claims?
B. ROSCHIN: Who?
A. DYKHOVICHNY: People. The clients and ... What is the main point? First you have articulated it ...
B. ROSCHIN: On corruption, of fraud, information about accounts with experts, customers and so on and so forth. Alex, if I'm going to go here in these artistic affairs of that organization here, we have until the morning you will not finish.
. DYKHOVICHNY: Just do not understand that ... Well, good examination. As there are extortion, something else? Here, in principle, it is not clear.
B. ROSCHIN: I understand you. So, before it happened so.
For a fake picture of you to give an expert opinion that it is real, that is Aivazovsky, you have to pay very big money. This is a bribe and extortion. But now a new kind of fraud. In this picture, you brought, I'm the expert - let's say you brought it to me. It's real. And I know and you know. And I'm telling you: "And I examination to you, dear, do not give, it was real, until you give me the money». Here I am, in my opinion, briefly explained.
A. DYKHOVICHNY: Yes, clearly. What Grabar Center to date the only one who ...
B. ROSCHIN: Almost, say so. Not only.
A. DYKHOVICHNY: And the Tretyakov Gallery?
B. ROSCHIN: No, they are forbidden in 2006 to provide expertise. All museums have banned individuals, give or sell because of the enormous costs money, give expertise. It is forbidden Shvydkoi. Incidentally, this was the only one, in my view, the present minister. Such there will be no more. Oh, never mind, now is not about Shvydkoi speech. Well, wait a minute, Alex, I would like to tell you what. If we are going to go into the debate, I would now. Tragedy. People died. Destroyed masterpieces, masterpieces of Russia. How much destruction, we do not know.
A. DYKHOVICHNY: But you are sure that destroyed?
B. ROSCHIN: Yes of course, destroyed. What these fables listen? They are now saying. What do they care, the belief that it is? I'm talking about the leadership of the center. He that has faith, or what? Just listen to the very interesting point, which I would like to draw your attention and listeners. I believe that everything that happened in the center Grabar is a tragedy. I do not mean a terrible fire, which killed people.
is a natural result and consequence of all that is happening, what happened in recent years in this center. This indulgence, impunity, this transformation, I repeat, government institutions in the private store, which flourished esprit de corps. Management Centre just so confident of their impunity that explain in a nutshell is unlikely I will now be able to. It is possible that the fire could have been deliberate. Why do I think? Could be, but I actually believe in this, but I still say "could be". So that's why I think so? To hide the theft of cultural property, why, and attract low-cost labor. And I'm sure. I do not know how they're all drawn up. Naturally, I think they are there now ... they are dashing guys, all they have decorated, a lot of money for repairs. Why shove? No fire alarm system did not work. But the kids were killed. A young man, there was a child. Who will be responsible for it?
This man is gay, which is always drunk - this director? I watched yesterday on the first channel in Time, "as his show, he goes on the ruined institution and papers ... and says:" Oh, oh, all drenched firefighters, how awful. And the fact that people died there, and I'm sure your fault? Criminal negligence is. I do not judge, but I think so. Let the investigation would reveal, and we will draw our conclusions. I am happy if I am wrong. But I am sure that all the blame on the leadership of the center. Whole. I'm on the Internet, in my opinion, or heard somewhere that everything was upholstered with plastic, easily flammable. I do not know the details, I do not firefighter, unfortunately, probably. Why after the Perm ... in a lame horse "200 people died. Why? I know that all restaurants are inspected, public institutions were closed, if there was something wrong. Why Grabar Center has not corrected these problems, here is plastic, if this is true? Questions very much, very much. I do not want to go into details, we simply do not have enough time. Now listen to. This institution - a treasure trove of Russia. How can migrant workers to work there? They have that, admission is? Go to the Hermitage now, the street type for 100 rubles unskilled workers. Never in my life! The Hermitage! Or in the Russian Museum, for example, or in the Kremlin. Let now the director Gagarin ... to his Kremlin migrant workers, who do not understand, who do not understand why?
Therefore, I believe, is possible and arson, and knowing this company. I want to say: Deputy Director - Shchurov. Her husband - also deputy director. However, under another name. Deputy Director for use. Like anything, it's all normal. Another deputy director - this Vigasina, best friend Kiseleva, head of expertise. Here is the esprit de corps. By the way, this one deputy director for operation of the building, it is just typed, apparently employees. That he manages this sector. Who's there on the roof, strange people, that they are there, grilled shish kebabs or khachapuri? What are they doing, who they had been able to? That's what we should talk. And now not even on the fakes it is coming. But they want it all blur, of course. Alex, the mass media, that no verification was not, I heard it. That to me is the response of the Ministry of Culture of the Russian Federation ...
A. DYKHOVICHNY: Checks on what occasion?
B. ROSCHIN: On the complaint. The media was ...
A. DYKHOVICHNY: Well, one complaint, which you read aloud?
B. ROSCHIN: Yes. Their weight, their weight. I just, after all, I do not know. I know from St. Petersburg man wrote almost 12 or 15 times. But not Grabar, and simply wrote about the same on the same occasion. True, this is not about Grabar discussed.
A. DYKHOVICHNY: Well this is another question.
B. ROSCHIN: Yes, we are not now concerned, their 1000 walks, these complaints. So, look.
«The audit within the competence of these federal authorities have identified some irregularities in the organization of this work. Identifying corruption and extortion by the Head of scientific expertise Kiseleva not within the competence of the Commission ». Maybe they're right, I do not know. But that's what interests me. Some violations are found were? We did not know about. But it is true, we must pay tribute, the commission has not yet reached an act. This whole process, know how, in time, too, perhaps, leave. I do not know. That's the question. This is a document that the committee was there. What it revealed, we do not know. It is April 19 this year, the first statement on the center Grabar for their incompetence.
A. DYKHOVICHNY: On the fact of the fire is proceeding.
B. ROSCHIN: Yes, go. Therefore, we will not discuss now.
A. DYKHOVICHNY: But you have already started. Are there any official versions, I honestly have not seen ... Are there any official versions, this is considered a fire?
B. ROSCHIN: media about this for a few wrote. But it's the media, journalists, you know, tend to say whatever they want. I do not know this, it should be with the respective committees ... I'm just here it now and I'm doing. I want to, perhaps, to me they heard that we should consider and arson version required. Once again, may hide the huge masterpieces of the Russian Federation of cultural valuables. Maybe that's why arson. I can not say, as you know. Two words you would like to say why I'm talking about the careless crime. Why do I extend the word "crime". In my opinion, the Penal Code contains the word "criminal negligence". Can be wrong. Now everything has changed the same code changes. So, why am I talking about it.
I will give you one example, but it is very, very serious. You know that the center Grabar two years and two months, in my opinion, but two years exactly, gives Filka ratification. You might ask: "What do you mean?". I tell you that. He gives the documents a non-existent organization. I explain why I'm doing such a statement. That's spravochki read by a specially printed: "The Federal Agency for Culture and Cinematography, whose head until May 12, 2008 was Mikhail Shvydkoi, abolished. No more of this agency. And there it stamped state seal, it is no longer valid long. And they continued two years, I repeat ... you ponder these words. According to my calculations, 2000 is only one examination department, I'm telling you ... 2000 - the first names - Aivazovsky, Shishkin, millions and millions of dollars - were issued opinions that are, in principle, has no legal force. A court today that Filka letter will not even be considered. Because this is exactly the same way as you showed me today, or somewhere in the bank, say, the passport of the Soviet Union. But I can not say that I have here is the document that has already altered official stamp. Already, they altered her. But it did happen in July. Two years more than they worked.
A. DYKHOVICHNY: In July 16 th or after?
B. ROSCHIN: In July, before the fire.
A. DYKHOVICHNY: Before the fire?
B. ROSCHIN: Before the fire, yes. Already in early July, there are documents that are prepared, which are not included here such names as the Federal Agency for Culture and Cinematography. Because the agency abolished. Well, you understand ... you have now in the hands of a document, it is worth $ 5 million a picture, but a document is invalid. No, of course, you can fix it, go to remake. Yes, still looking at the right time, as they are silent all this. Do you understand? In the best case of mistaken it's all clear, forgotten, as they now say: "Oh, we forgot to re-register that we have official stamp ...". For two years they die. They have reported and the tax is likely, and in the ministry with the same securities, negotiated contracts with the same builders of the defunct organization. That's the main thing. Why do I stress on doing this? That's the main thing here with this ought to start - that if the leadership of the center of two years does not know what they were abolished, their agency, to whom they obey, and all functions transferred, is written here, new Ministry of Culture. The Ministry of Culture is now using its official stamp proper, forms new, not old-fashioned. And it gives rise, too, make sure that this whole campaign, so this now ... I do not know how to call her, I think the investigators know how to call it.
A. DYKHOVICHNY: Well, you know, Vladimir, confused, maybe, a quoted mixed print, is there a certain number of complaints from you - it's all here ...
B. ROSCHIN: Not from me, and the Minister. I saw them.
DYKHOVICHNY AA: Well, yes, you copy. That is all this is somehow not up to the fact that the blame arson.
B. ROSCHIN: Alex, one minute. Just that's good that you stopped me. You probably have not heard that I'm not blaming, I'm not an investigator. I said that I think that is possible and arson. At best, I repeat, this is negligence.
A. DYKHOVICHNY: We continue. And I remind you that our guests Vladimir Roshchin, publisher of the directory's Most Wanted "and" Catalogue of counterfeit works of art. We say about the fire in the Restoration Center of Grabar, a fire, which killed two people, two firefighters. And about the fire, which, according to Vladimir, killing many unique works of art.
B. ROSCHIN: Permanently.
A. DYKHOVICHNY: How do you say, forever. You do not blame ...
B. ROSCHIN: Although I do not see that killing, for example. But I know that this is all they are deliberately silent.
A. DYKHOVICHNY: You can not accuse anybody of arson.
B. ROSCHIN: I can not blame, naturally.
A. DYKHOVICHNY: But as you say, do not rule.
B. ROSCHIN: Absolutely correct.
A. DYKHOVICHNY: You know, from my point of view, that's the wording "does not exclude the possibility that it was arson or negligence" in the context of what you said about the leadership of the center Grabar, is nothing more than a little effort to disguise a direct accusation understanding that the court in defense of honor and dignity, in my opinion, already assured.
B. ROSCHIN: You know, Alexey, I am ready to sue them. They may be served on me in court. And if I have them, as you say ... the honor and dignity, you say yes? What an honor, what advantage is there? Okay, I will not know. Listen, I'm prepared to sue them. And believe me, I dumped so much material, I find them, they are, it does not seem little, I assure you. This may not affect all deputies, and anyone of them, but so that it does not seem little. The court, you say? Who will answer for these guys dead? I'll want only what you say. That is all I'm doing, listen, I paid for it do not get. Do you understand? So I think their duty. Once in your life let a psycho in "recreational" Behold this company. I do not know why. If you prove to the court for negligence - let it be, then, for negligence. For a bribe - means for taking bribes. If not planted, then do not go to jail. But I'm sure you know, Alexey, I'm sure that now 50 percent of listeners, too, believe me, they support my opinion. My opinion.
A. DYKHOVICHNY: Maybe I do not know. Now you say "I'll get the evidence." And why do you still have not done so?
B. ROSCHIN: And you did not? Here! You little? Another find.
A. DYKHOVICHNY: You waited for the fire, death, death ...
B. ROSCHIN: Alex, I did not wait, and they waited. They. Right, you said, they waited, not me. First, you see what dates on the seals. What date? Since April the complaint. In the correspondence we have with them.
A. DYKHOVICHNY: With them - with whom?
A. ROSCHIN: The Ministry. On bringing order to the center of Grabar. What's tyranny, simply arbitrary. Private shop. If you say: Behold the fire occurred yesterday, and now you all have started to write. That's when you were right. But since April we have, we are in the correspondence is, with a prayer request: move the order there. And then you fire. Again, this fire, I think the tragedy, a terrible fire - a natural result and the consequences of what was going on there guidance center.
A. DYKHOVICHNY: From your point of view, it always had this situation in the center Grabar?
B. ROSCHIN: No, only in recent years.
A. DYKHOVICHNY: What's wrong? If possible, I now quote from the interview, a short piece, which is an art historian and collector Valery Dudakov, a member of the Club collectors of fine art, gave a daily newspaper gzt.ru ...
B. ROSCHIN: Well, it does not matter, let's.
A. DYKHOVICHNY: No, it's important.
«However, the fire destroyed the center make way for the art market by an independent expert centers. According to the collector, a tragedy that the fire hit unique works ... "He said that was monopolized by the center Grabar ...
B. ROSCHIN: No, absolutely not.
A. DYKHOVICHNY: No?
B. ROSCHIN: Well, on the one hand, he's right. But on the other hand, not only the center provides. There's a restoration of the Institute, three - four organizations provide. All this nonsense, is not it all. But somehow he's right. Grabar Center was considered, say, the last word.
That is, you have three examination some organizations, all ask: and we still need a document from the center Grabar.
A. DYKHOVICHNY: But why? That's how I understand it, the expertise ...
B. ROSCHIN: Examination is not with it.
A. DYKHOVICHNY: What to do with it?
B. ROSCHIN: Do not do with it. What sort of center where expertise, in what here? In a fire expert. I'll try to explain, not in the expertise of business, but in a mess that was going on there. That's what I want to people and before you report it. We do not need to parse these examinations.
A. DYKHOVICHNY: No, well, a mess - you understand, this is a common word. Specifically, what he ...
B. ROSCHIN: Again, specifically ...
A. DYKHOVICHNY: First you said - examination.
B. ROSCHIN: The fact that two years the organization suppression, which, in principle, in nature there, the state seal stamped invalid. I repeat, any court recognizes these findings Filka diploma. In the best case make remake. But two of them - 3,000. This is only one department, and their 17. And the economic activities they were also on the same press, which does not exist. You say: What is Negligence? You did this enough? Well, two years ... you're the director you have the deputies there all right. All deputies in the good offices of the sitting, and you two years do not know that you have eliminated, and you continue to die for the money.
A. DYKHOVICHNY: Not you, the parent organization.
B. ROSCHIN: Do you understand? Well, maybe I made a reservation. I just may be so emotional talking about it. You know, I can not differently when it comes to that people, once you say ... I was on fire, but I've seen it all. I saw these young guys who climbed, risking their lives because of these ... now understand what I say about them. Do you understand? Who do they risk that? Yes, they had long drive out on the basis of complaints! Or in a pinch ... I'm not a minister, I do not know who should, who do not, without me it will solve. But in extreme cases will be examined something properly.
A. DYKHOVICHNY: Well, we've got literally a half minutes. But I know still do not understand why it came to a fire or loss of life, when you, as you say, "I want, I will gather a lot of evidence"? That you said. If a lot of complaints, how do you say, but still the center was the ultimate authority in the examination. Why does this happen?
B. ROSCHIN: Oops, Alex, answer.
A. DYKHOVICHNY: Yes, a minute.
B. ROSCHIN: Well, I'm telling you why he was the last. Because it is the only state institution, who is allowed to provide expertise to individuals. Museums in 2006, as I have already told you, is prohibited. A center can Grabar, this is not a museum. Second, as you just said: why do you say "if necessary, I gather? I'm not an investigator, I do not need to collect, and so all are. You just have to understand this, it's true or not true. I think all that is written is absolutely true. Then what did you say "gather". That's now come from the people leave, I have many of phone calls. Here's what they saw on television in the West, still, you know what month rest. It will come in September. And I think there will be thousands. Well, figuratively speaking.
A. DYKHOVICHNY: Thousands of complaints?
B. ROSCHIN: Probably. Maybe ten, I do not know.
A. DYKHOVICHNY: Vladimir Roshchin, publisher of the directory's Most Wanted "and" Catalogue of counterfeit works of art ", was our guest. On fire in the Grabar Restoration Center behalf we talked. Vladimir, thank you.
radio station Echo of Moscow "
http://www.echo.msk.ru/programs/beseda/696419-echo/