A: I'm not the curator. I have great experience in art, but there is no special education. In 1964 I went to. Sorbonne and was going to study mathematics, but in 18 years got married, had a daughter, and we had a family. Then I dropped math and went to work in a travel agency. And soon, by the way, first came to Russia - in 1965, with a group of psychologists: Moscow held its World Congress. And in 1968, I went to Lufthansa, where he spent 35 years heading public relations service. There I began to study modern art - we have supported exhibitions in different countries. I traveled a lot, gradually became acquainted with artists, gallerists, museum directors. At some point it occurred to me that we should show to the world of Russian culture - what our country really is. And I thought, "Great Utopia" - a retrospective of Russian avant-garde completely, inside and out, from 1913 to 1932. We arrived with Thomas Krens - he had not even been head of the Guggenheim Foundation - to Moscow to negotiate and got on the first and last auction at Sotheby's in Moscow. 1988, Simon de Pury, some princesses, all very glamorous. With this auction, many Russian artists - Grisha Bruskin, for example, who was on the cover of the catalog - have become quite famous in the world. His paintings are bought, it seems, for 200 thousand dollars, if not more - then nemerenoe amount.

Q: Your interest in Russia and an excellent Russian - from the family, of course?

A: Sure. All the roots of Russia, and only about Russian culture and in Russian have been talking to my parents' house. Of course, not like the regime - because it all and left. Father (Vladimir Ilyin, a philosopher. - Comm. OK!) Even wrote a book "Communism - the death of culture." But since my childhood I wanted to see with my own eyes Moscow, St. Petersburg. I was lucky: I was able to poobschatsya's people, make friends, to live in different places - at the Savoy, "Ostankino-2" and even in the MGU dormitory Friends - the most important thing, you can not fall in love with the building or the street, only people. And interesting people already want to do something together. In 1976, another was the Soviet Union, I helped to organize - not for Lufthansa - Festival of Soviet cinema in Germany. It took place in Frankfurt, Berlin and Munich. As well we fought Goskino to get films which would, for example Aegon Klimov, who for seven years has lain on the shelf! Was a great success for the festival came Panfilov, Abdrashitov. I remember we were directed by Sergei Gerasimov went on the market, he opted for ravioli, and then his wife, Tamara Makarova, they molded to my kitchen. Hundreds of ravioli. It was fun! ..

Q: Since the Soviet era in Russia's culture is changing for the better? Or many defects remained?

A: I think that in Russia too developed bureaucracy, and few private initiatives in the sphere of culture, because they are not encouraged. In the U.S., any museum - a nonprofit organization that manages the entire board of trustees, for example, they may dismiss the director. And in Russia, any fool can lead the museum for years, if not steal a spoon or a statue ... .

Q: .. or rather, if it does not get caught stealing.

A: Yes. In my opinion, when in Russia, the Hermitage, there was a board of trustees, it was a sensation. But such sponsorship is not developed here because the state does not give any power. There is no mechanism of society in their same culture, only the ministry.

Q: Recently heard proposals to abolish the Ministry of Culture in general ...

A: I do not think it's a good idea. Ministry of Culture still supports theaters, museums and monuments. If you throw it all on to other ministries, it is better not to be. I think the bureaucrats should be forced to think differently. In Russia, there is the Council for Culture under the President, but it does not work.

Q: Well, with the State Museum is understandable, but Russia is now a huge number of private galleries. The idea is that there should not be such a contrast to Europe, USA ...

A: Well, I do not know ... At one time it was fashionable in Moscow to his wife's richest men opened gallery. Stella Kesayeva so began, but she quickly realized that selling - none of her business and created a fund, began to organize exhibition of Russian art. We have it there was very joyful occasion. She gathered at the Venice Biennale dinner at Cipriani. I was late, I go, there are tables for 50 people each, and for the central back to me sitting Stella. I walked over and kissed her on the cheek and said in Russian: "Hello, beautiful." But it turned out that this is Naomi Campbell. And then I really knew who she was. So I excused myself and went looking for Stella. A recently met Naomi with her fiance at the opening ceremony, told this story, she said that she remembers me. Cheating, I guess. And if you go back to art as a business, it is not developed in Russia. Firstly, with artists taking taxes, and rather big, among other things. In Europe, nowhere is it is not. In addition, often the artists gallerists with no written contract - so, he brought a picture and gave it back. But for the normal art-business need not catch a random oligarch and quickly poke it that expensive, and publishing catalogs, giving the picture a good collections or museums. In Russia it is almost there. In America, there is a whole association of art dealers, with its charter, which defines even ethical standards, and the association defends the interests of the profession, offers a useful industry-wide laws. And I remember Peter Aven (President of Alfa Bank. "- Note. OKI) has promoted a law on the import of works of art in Russia. Previously, all imported in a suitcase or forged checks, but now an honest man can bring your purchase. A no, and progress.

 Q: That is true, by world standards, galleries from your point of view in Russia is not ...

A: Why, in my view, the commercially successful - "Triumph", Regina, "Our artists and gallery Gary Tatintsian. And so ... Many who then makes an interesting, bright ...

Q: On the bright designs. Do not you think that a lot - not only Russian - the artists and gallery owners and art make a provocation, simply to be remembered?

About: Art is useful, even if it is a provocation. So when you something do not like, we must reflect, think - and then enjoy it. This process, like the music on the radio: first listen - a stupid melody, then begins to whistle it in the bathtub, and now she likes. At Deutsche Bank is one of the world's largest collections of contemporary art - more than 25 thousand units. You know what they do with it except for exhibitions? All offices and meeting areas - in London, Singapore, New York ... - Hang pictures and change them once a year. They believe that by doing so expand the horizons of their employees.

Q: What if a person does not work for Deutsche Bank, but wishes to expand their horizons, but not like modern art, then maybe he should go to learn this?

A: No, I do not think it necessary. Better to teach art history. It seems to me very knowingly removed the art history curriculum, not only in Russia - everywhere. So be sure to give yourself a child to a museum, giving him listen to music. Child's easy to perceive, difficult for adults: if a person has grown by socialist realism, then the abstraction it would be hard ...

Q: You know, I have yet to "Winery" to work did not come, too, thought: contemporary art, for young people. And when I started coming back every day, I saw that among the visitors there are people more than older ...

A: Well, "Winery" - an attractive place. Many things can be seen in one place, walk through the galleries. Convenient: cafe, children's studio ... In the West, many museums and shops as follows: to keep the baby - and went for a walk the trade show, or to measure shoes.

Q: Speaking of shoes. How important is infrastructure for cultural institutions? In Russia, a big problem: no parking, or a cafe or a museum shop does not work ...

A: There simply is not marketing, but they definitely need to do. Metropolitan Museum of Art at one time had its offices - shops - even at airports, and it was a big part of his income. And in Russia, this completely different story. You go to the Tretyakov Gallery on the Crimean shaft, and there are two benches that do not understand what Torv. Of course, always need parking, cafes, and then on the fourth hour walk through the Hermitage would like to sit and drink tea. Here we are now building a museum in Abu Dhabi on 50 thousand square meters. There will be a branch of the Guggenheim, the Louvre, even the National Museum and Concert Complex, the same university, and many hotels. Gigantic project, the multi-billion - is expensive. But I am now to ensure that the infrastructure around a cultural institution can be of immense benefit not only the museum but also the whole city or even country. Take, for example, Bilbao: a hole was no one there did not go, and the government decided to develop the city. How? Built a new, good airport, a new bridge, subway and came to the Guggenheim: "We need a museum." Thomas Krens, even at first did not know where it is, on the map have been searching for. But they are hard to persuade, lure us in Bilbao, was brought in an old palace and said: "This building". But we refused, chose an industrial zone on the river bank and built supermuzey, this monument to modern architecture. The city flourished: there was to move the youth began to develop new areas of industry - programming, design. Life has changed. I think, in Vladivostok, too, could do such a thing ...

Q: Nick, until this moment the most exotic of your projects for me was the Hermitage - Guggenheim in Las Vegas ...

A: It was a success story. We have space for seven years now, there boutique Prada, and brought the exhibition. Up to this point in Vegas was not fine art. The show was great, but the museum was a deficit.

 Q: Did you, it turns out, is not the curator, as a missionary: on the one hand, promote Russian culture worldwide, with another - Russian help to do something ...

A: Well, you have to be modest. My contribution is that I just acquaintances with each other.

We have organized several exhibitions of Russian: "Great Utopia" - a retrospective of Russian avant-garde - was shown in all four of the Guggenheim, the Jewish Theatre of Marc Chagall, was first shown in the Guggenheim Museum, "Amazon's avant-garde" - in the Guggenheim Museum and the Royal Academy. I'm not talking about exhibitions of Malevich, the giant project, "Russia!". I think art - the best way of communication between countries. I think that for Russia, it is particularly important to improve the image in such a way, because if the man himself where something did not happen, the judges of the country reported in the press and the media loves scandals. Therefore, when foreigners come to the Russian exhibitions and concerts, they no longer believe in fairy tales about wild Russia, bears in the streets and gangs.

Q: And some of his personal, not for the Guggenheim, the projects you are doing?

A: Yes, spring in the Pushkin Museum is a great exhibition of photos by Annie Leibovitz. Then she moves to the Hermitage.

Q: Nick, sorry for the question, How would you explain why you get to do all these incredible things?

A: You know, I am a happy man: 95 percent of what I do in my life, I liked it. It is very important to do what you like, and that many young people are sitting in some Gazprom, earn stupid money and suffer.

Q: Let's hope they read your interview and still go to engage the culture. Thank you.

Museum quality

Foundation and the Guggenheim Museum is one of the leading collections of contemporary art in the world - was founded in 1937 in New York at the initiative of philanthropist Solomon Robert Guggenheim. First, the museum was located in an old building, and only in 1959 was completed the new building by the famous architect Frank Lloyd Wright. Unfortunately, neither the founder nor the architect and have not seen the original building-helix. In June 2002 the Fund had signed with the Russian Ministry of Culture and the State Hermitage agreement on long-term cooperation. In particular, the fund participated in the reconstruction of the east wing of the former General Staff on Palace Square in St. Petersburg. Branches of the Solomon R. Guggenheim is, in Venice, Las Vegas, Berlin and Bilbao.