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-   -   Theft, fraud (https://forum.artinvestment.ru/showthread.php?t=31256)

v_r 16.06.2009 00:02

Theft, fraud
 
Вложений: 2
Цитата:

Сообщение от dedulya37 (Сообщение 432116)
If you have saved at least some photos of the stolen works, you can place them here in a separate topic. Maybe there when.
We also have four of the "go" to an exhibition in Spain and never returned.
But sure to emerge, I'm sure.

on the advice of the distinguished dedulya37 create this theme.
Many had to deal with theft and fraud.
Stolen goods is desirable to "know the face."
I think this topic would be of interest to all forum participants.
To start lecturing two photos stolen 1991. paintings.
"Youth distant ancestors" and "Village Wedding"
Surfaced at an auction "Dorotheum" 15 November 2000.

AlexanderG 16.06.2009 07:10

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/conte...9/s2590603.htm

Nemnogo ne v temu, o poddelkah. Svezaia peredacha ot ABC.

Schitaiu, chto tema o krazah i poddelkah, iskliuchitel'no vazna.

dedulya37 16.06.2009 07:35

Цитата:

Сообщение от Admin (Сообщение 432446)
Can someone suggest a more interesting name?

Maybe so: "missing under mysterious circumstances." ?

dedulya37 16.06.2009 08:04

Missing in Spain
 
Вложений: 4
Below are four of Stozharov VF, who drove in the exhibition in Spain.
Just make a reservation: images are what are. Do not expect anything grand. The names below the picture.
It was a troubled time adjustment and society cracking at the seams.
Nobody could answer the question where are all the same has got the whole show, although people involved in this issue, swirling in the art business so far. Obviously triggered the principle of "collective irresponsibility". And, despite the fact that the written any letters of complaint somewhere, signed any petitions, the exhibition vanished without a trace. But the hope of clarity on this issue is not leaving.
Maybe someone has to add something to this post.

gans 16.06.2009 08:50

Цитата:

Сообщение от dedulya37 (Сообщение 432496)
It was a troubled time adjustment and society cracking at the seams.
Nobody could answer the question where are all the same has got the whole show, although people involved in this issue, swirling in the art business so far.

The overall situation, such stories are very much unfortunately.

v_r 16.06.2009 09:25

People really unsavory lot.
But the fight that can and should. Necessary to create a vacuum around the crooks and thieves.
Even if you can not find the stolen item, return it in practice is not feasible.
Remain silent, too, not worth it. From the hands of fraudsters may suffer other decent people.

Allena 16.06.2009 09:30

Цитата:

Сообщение от v_r (Сообщение 432286)
surfaced at an auction "Dorotheum" November 15, 2000.

And you tried to apply to himself "Dorotheum"? They also must be the coordinates of the person who rented. And the statute of limitations on such cases, it seems, no. Or is there?

v_r 16.06.2009 09:50

Цитата:

Сообщение от Allena (Сообщение 432586)
And you tried to apply to himself "Dorotheum"? They also must be the coordinates of the person who rented. And the statute of limitations on such cases, it seems, no. Or is there?

No, I'm not a lawyer.
understand perfectly well that these two and the huge number of stolen from his father in 1991. paintings changed many owners before you get to the "Dorotheum".
Sometimes I become aware that the stolen painting "float"
Again I repeat, I am not a lawyer, not criminologist, not a detective. Not for someone to chase and anger is not going to punish anyone. Not enough health and zhizni.Nemnogo later try to lay out photos and other loss. I can only be naive to rely only on the conscience and decency illegal owners.
This subject is open for exchange rather sad experience and information stolen.

dedulya37 16.06.2009 11:07

Цитата:

Сообщение от v_r (Сообщение 432656)
This subject is open for exchange rather sad experience and information stolen.

Better to let the current owners know that they own stolen.
A potential future owners will also know about it.
Indeed, if you wish, you can restore the entire chain.
And illegal owners can declare an amnesty to the proof of authorship of the family.

v_r 16.06.2009 11:13

question forumcanam
 
Вложений: 1
Another question
Maybe someone knows who these people are and what I could get to them this picture http://www.realismo.gazzerro.com/ind...&Itemid=88
link to the site http://ryasnyansky.com to me was a huge surprise.
To quote from the memoirs of Michael Ryasnyanskii 23/ХІІ. 97g.: ... I have since this picture and another, which he called "precinct" presented to the regional Department of Internal Affairs, where they are now exhibited in the museum ...

v_r 16.06.2009 11:20

Цитата:

Сообщение от dedulya37 (Сообщение 432806)
I prefer the current owners know that they possess stolen property.
A potential future owners will also know about it.
Indeed, if you wish, you can restore the entire chain.
And illegal owners can declare an amnesty to confirm authorship of the family.

totally agree with the distinguished dedulya37
There is no desire to swim in the mud.
Paintings that in no way guilty. They were not created in order to hide them and what you fear.

Konstantin 16.06.2009 11:22

Initiative is very correct, has recently crossed with some officials (especially not speak nor where nor when, nor with anyone, anything will change) and he said that they have a database of stolen artworks, through the Ministry of Internal Affairs. I invited him to post it on our site. In response, the official said five minutes, all of the words were understandable, but the general sense was absent. In the words of the person I thought of the idea he does not think: either useful, if feasible, and may I did not looked, about the site did not hear anything.

If you start to spread yourself here, how to avoid bullying? How to check the truth or it is stolen hex?

Кирилл Сызранский 16.06.2009 11:31

Цитата:

Сообщение от Konstantin (Сообщение 432906)
If you start to spread yourself here, how to avoid bullying? How to check the truth or it is stolen hex?

This is already a serious conversation, I think that in this situation you have to give the real names of the authors of the theft and their contacts can keep it all in the administration forum. Somehow ...

gorelov 16.06.2009 11:31

By the way:
Цитата:

"Turnover" black art market in Russia ranges from $ 300 million to $ 1.5 billion ", article in Izvestia newspaper on 30.08.04: "Turnover" black market ", for obvious reasons, it is difficult to calculate. According to some estimates, it amounts to 300 million dollars, on the other - half a billion. That is, at least two, and even in ten times the turnover of the "white market", which is written "Izvestia", is equal to approximately 150 million (including, again, foreign purchases of our collectors).

Why is this happening, of course: no one wants to shine their collections (fear), no one wants to pay taxes (toad strangling), and indeed, why overpay. After all "white" thing is lighted by two or even more times more expensive than the "black". That is flourishing black market in the interest of all: the sellers who, of course, and we are happy to sell something more expensive, but then have to pay taxes, and buyers to save their dreams, and, strangely enough, the state, which, strictly speaking simply does not interfere ".
That is a bit ridiculous to resent the criminal actions of one who himself is entirely criminalized. "A thief from a thief stole a stick" is shorter.

Кирилл Сызранский 16.06.2009 11:33

Цитата:

Сообщение от gorelov (Сообщение 432936)
That is a bit ridiculous to resent the criminal actions of one who himself is entirely criminalized.

This is you talking about the art market?


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