Форум по искусству и инвестициям в искусство

Форум по искусству и инвестициям в искусство (https://forum.artinvestment.ru/index.php)
-   Investing in Art (https://forum.artinvestment.ru/forumdisplay.php?f=66)
-   -   How to unleash the artist (https://forum.artinvestment.ru/showthread.php?t=2666)

sss 04.10.2008 14:29

Samvel, try to order:

About Tarkovsky and Paradzhanova I wanted to say only what he said, without any implications. I'll try another way: without Kuprina Russian literature can not be presented in full. But, whatever the Kuprin good, talented and beloved writer, Dostoevsky more significant, because it is their creativity identified in the literature of an entire era.
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The fact that today's dealers want to buy for 100ð, and sell for 1000 $ "- there is nothing wrong with that. We all want to buy cheap and sell expensive.
Читать дальше... 
dealer and philanthropist - different concepts.
You know, when the artist asked for a picture 1 rub., And the dealer gave him 1rub. And the next day to sell the painting for 10000000000000000000000000000 rub. - It honestly. In any case, no one no one cheated. Not fair - this is when the artist has agreed with the dealer, the dealer found a buyer, but the artist changed his mind. Samvel note, I - not the dealer. I'm just trying to talk sensibly. Experience of communicating with dealers I have plenty. Among them are cheap bazaar traders, but also among artists, not all geniuses.
Relationships artist-dealer - a commitment from both sides, on the basis of agreement. Schemes of work set by "blind" to "transparent" conditions - too. Perhaps you really did not meet "fair dealer", perhaps the very notion of "honesty" is interpreted by you as something special.
90%(author) 10%(dealer), provided that the dealer sells now for $ 1000.
10%(author) 90%(dealer), provided that the dealer sells the same picture for $ 10000.
How do you like the dealer? Honest, who gave you as much as 90%=$ 900
Or the one from whom you received only 10%= 1000 $
I knew a guy from Odessa, who in the late 80's well settled in Amsterdam - they took up the old man, in his time engaged in S. Dali. A couple of years the artist has earned millions of guilders, and decided to revise onerous (I think 30%to 70%) relationship with the dealer. The dealer is not liked. Creative affair ended in divorce. So after this, the artist has not sold any of its profitable operation. Galleries agree were having a relationship with his dealer, but not with him personally.
Naturally, I omit all sorts of nuances, but the essence is this.
Samvel, I think you are confusing the commodity-money relations with the categories of morality, sensuality, and so forth - hence the konfliktuete with themselves.
I know artists who do not communicate with any dealers or the galleries, it does not, do not sell (at least, nothing to fail to do so specifically), while still a good artist, not in need of compassion. The very notion of "artist" of all artists - misc. For some people - is the ability to draw, for others - a means of livelihood, for the third - a way to carry culture to the masses, for the fourth - a self-affirmation, for the fifth - membership in SC ..., for the one hundred thirty-fifth - way of life.
Honest and poor - are not identical concepts. Poor dealer - a phantasmagoria.
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Speaking about the degree of influence on the masses, of course, I was not referring to the mass of the proletariat. Not for them, by and large, everything is done.
If you think that Herman, I. Averbakh - "traces", then what kind of depth should be "the trenches"? And, Zvyagintsev just started, wait - we shall see.

Кирилл Сызранский 04.10.2008 14:55

[QUOTE=iosif;69916]
Цитата:

Сообщение от Samvel (Сообщение 69846)
\ honest dealer-poor dealer \, or certificate, my honesty, my poverty \



And if very serious, smart dealer will never be greedy miser. As well as a clever artist (situation a mirror).

Sometimes the artist is losing touch with reality and bends the price of their things ... would explain what you can from other dealers named to take over a half-delit.Trudno just happens to talk about money with the artists, mites pull tsifry.A here to borrow money on the material, please is obtained legko.No noticed provincial artist moved to Moscow immediately become realists.

AlexanderG 04.10.2008 14:59

To Samvel

Privit ', ka vy skazali, vsenarodnuiu liubov' raskrutkoi mozno. Po nastoiaschemu imenno vsenarodnaia liubov 'i dostigaetsia raskrutkoi, i ne vazno chego, iskusstva, muzyki ili politicheskogo deiiatelia.

Kstati odnim is geniev raskrutki schitaetsia Gebbel's.

Zenia 04.10.2008 16:19

Цитата:

Сообщение от sss (Сообщение 69986)
Speaking about the degree of influence on the masses, of course, I was not referring to the mass of the proletariat. Not for them, by and large, everything is done.

That would agree not. There is no "masses of the proletariat" there are people who are fated to different levels of the social ladder. And if rbota such that from her breath away, it does not matter who, at the cleaners or the president. And if the cleaning lady will think that this is just a 5-tap-hole something painted, so a penny the price of such work, how much, she would not stoila.

Кирилл Сызранский 04.10.2008 16:23

Zenia, and you show cleaning Kandinskogo.Chto she say?

Zenia 04.10.2008 17:07

Цитата:

Сообщение от Cyril Syzransky (Сообщение 70056)
Zenia, and you show cleaning Kandinskogo.Chto she say?

Kandinsky there is in Louisiana, it remains to find an appropriate cleaner. When found, then I will know what to say.: P

Самвел 04.10.2008 19:36

It may seem that I am the artist himself, it is not so, I am as you call the dealer and collector in one person. I think that today to be successful, just insulting to people in general, but DLA artist so bolee.Ya also know that now exist, and brilliant artists, poets, kompozitory.i.t.d, they do not just hearsay, they do Nobody knows, but they will have their say in the future. If they are known, then in narrow circles, which may even deliberately avoid this popularity, because they have a sense of shame, and they do not want to become on par with today's political thinkers. On their way to fame are, today's dealers, brokers and managers. etc., with his beloved mediocrity. Something like today to be successful, a special mind-no need to look around. What causes wealth? "- Answer-the Spirit of levity. All good things are kept in soih vice-these figures. This naturally does not apply to everyone, but to most accurately. The artist is quite different, there is something beyond, not of this world, through the artist in the broadest sense of the word says, someone even I admit that the artist is held captive by that someone. Therefore, it can not be perfected, that someone he dictates the terms. Usovershnstvovatsya be a teacher, or combine. I am not in conflict with itself Saboia, but rather the contrary.

Евгений 05.10.2008 06:47

Samvel, As you are sereznyy.Nado and sometimes a good song to listen: Tata Simonyan, Anatoly Dneprov - "Armenia" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3287qhntBY

Самвел 05.10.2008 11:10

Eugene, I am not a supporter of such melodies. Although I am an Armenian, but I love the Azeri music /Mugam \

sss 09.10.2008 12:05

missart: advise what to buy? Many pictures yet unknown artists? Enough paintings have more serious artists (for example, those who have already exhibited abroad, who have catalogs, awards, etc. but let's say even a small scale )...
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qwerty: I began to buy paintings in the late eighties. My first acquisitions were works by Alexander Parkhomenko and Eugene licorice. These people have had solo exhibitions in the CHA, it was a lot of publications, for their work frantically traded at auctions. I was lucky at the auction and buy some of their works to 10 000 rubles. Then that was big money, for example, Lada cost about 7000. Can you now say anything about any artist mentioned?
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qwerty, insulting or that none of these artists today do not hear (rather, it is natural), sorry that you bought the work over time will not be better. (I apologize in advance, this is just my purely personal opinion).
      Asked Vladimira quite differently about you, I think, indirectly touched on an important topic titles, regalia, and so forth. (2A, ZB ...), which have not see the principal.
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On the pages of the forum in different themes slipped recommendation to pay attention to the existence of publications, number and quality of exhibitions.
      If the artist a lot of good, quality show - it means he somehow involved in market processes.
      Often, the buyer is knowledgeable in the subject of purchase, not guided by information about the availability of awards and the number of exhibitions, and uninformed - it may be uninformed and to assess their quality.
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      The building of the city Philharmonic sounded N Bach performed by "... a compatriot of the great composer, bright and talented organist R. Bethke. After the first chords understand people hesitate to leave immediately, and were forced to enjoy the first division, while the rest of the audience applauded. It later emerged that Mr. "a compatriot of the great composer, generally speaking, a professional firefighter, and the body baluetsya on Sundays at a local church. One of the Philharmonic concert did not stop there. This figure is several years in a row gifts to children's music school in second-hand balalaika and pianinkami, reputed patron; prepay rehearsal Philharmonic Orchestra, recorded several CDs, and with the support of the Department of Culture, the festival moved to Russia for a conductor.
I think not knowing inside out, having read the record of such a musician, very even and you can impress.
Читать дальше... 
Personal exhibition at City Hall, some town in Germany with a population of 10 thousand people is very different in quality from the same exhibition in the museum of local lore Uryupinsk, though, both to put it mildly, it may be questionable. In the early 90's, many Western artists attacked our provincial museums and city galleries with only one desire - "room" to its credit "museum exhibition. And such an opportunity provided to them heartily (humanitarian euphoria). At home they could only dream that someday could be finished their exhibition activities in the museum space, and we have them with him began.
      With awards and honors is the case in much the same. "Honored" provide for retirement, and ministerial awards such as "Confessions", "Inspiration" and so on .--served basis the queue. Membership in the SC by many artists and admirers of their talent is seen as an indulgence, which provides an eternal stay in the history of art.
       "The works are in the collection of N-tion of the art gallery" - sounds proud, but do not forget that no one has yet canceled the curatorial nepotism and mezhdusoboychikov. The quality of junior and senior scientists (experts) of many N-ских institutions does not speak - they (staff) go there to work work, not more.
(From the TV news: a round table brought together art and local art ").
      I remember as a 91-m "local art" were worn with another "great compatriot composer" and explained Talochkin discharged "Other Art", that he does not get underfoot with an unknown Ernst.
Talochkin until late in the evening sat in the foyer of the gallery with paintings on the boxes until, by chance passing by and is already heading home a woman ekspozitsioner not asked who he was and what was doing here. Genuinely surprised, she unpacked the night before, along with paintings, was the inventory and all the way, apologizing, apologizing, apologizing for the misunderstanding occurred. Talochkin calmed down and asked:
      - Difficult to work with fools?
      - Very, - she said - They believe that Ernst Unknown - it is a noun and an adjective.
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      Director of the gallery, accompanied by flocks of staff, personally conducted an excursion for people from the government, leading them through the halls, warehouses, etc. Finding himself in the restoration, he demonstrated the equipment and explained that there are in the order of pictures from the collection of galleries - is restored and the paint layer is prevention:
      - Here is a picture of our artist Petrova. This - Ivanov portrayed autumn. This - not seeing the signature on the front side of the canvas, the director looked at the turnover and continued, - This is our artist Zohcho. Over there - two icons of 19 th century.
      If the names of the first two artists I knew, the third name I had never heard. After the departure of VIP-guests, too, looked at the other side of the canvas. The artist Zohcho were requisites: 30 x 40.
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      Serious artists (seriously a Related) avoid relationships with institutions, not serious, preferring to remain in demand only in the narrow circle of professionals. They are not involved in market processes, not because they have decided to retain its independence from the market, but merely stating a fact of this independence, because it was not possible.
      In summary, I note: it is sometimes worthwhile to pay attention not on the awards and exhibitions, and in their absence - this can also be measure with a plus sign.
      Therefore, when buying a painting of unknown or little-known artist, obviously, only remains that the painting itself. All information in itself.
      What is unknown? Absolutely nothing. Uncertainty can be corrected. Mediocrity irreparable.

Glasha 09.10.2008 13:37

Вложений: 1
"Wonderful" stories, especially about the artist Zohcho liked, thank you sss.
Цитата:

Сообщение от sss (Сообщение 73396)
Severe artists (seriously a Related) avoid relationships with institutions, not serious, preferring to remain in demand only in the narrow circle of professionals. They are not involved in market processes, not because they have decided to retain its independence from the market, but merely stating a fact of this independence, because it was not possible.

In the continuation of the theme I can tell you about quite accidentally recent opening for a painter. Covering with a friend on the Art Fair in New Manege (wanted to see Vladimir Yakovlev stated in the announcement of the fair, but it never found), have slowed liked the picture, then it is the second, third ..., Mistress galleries: Victor-Dynnikov. . -I do not know this, but like, and reminds the beloved Peter Dick brevity ... And it turns out, moreover, that he, too, from Vladimir, their mastesterskie door to door, friends (intuitively responded as he ran past). Why Dynnikov unknown, because mastitis "Vladimirskaya school" would not accept it in its ranks and gave no display (yes, Dick is actually not very fond of, as I understand it). Only Dick went looking for a new job B. Dynnikova, his supporters say, well, be himself. http://www.expo-88.ru/painters/dinnikov.shtml
  So please, almost unknown, not exhibited, not adopted, and work such that by not run, my opinion of course. Yes, according to this, of course, badly sold, the wife of \ two children, but continued to work as God in the soul laid. And many of his canvases bilateral: when he began to write in order not naravilos, then turned the host, made his, and the underside of the canvas is always better, converse and exhibited several works ...
  And now to the list of artists, close friends, some of which I would like to have for themselves, for the soul by adding another-they are now four (in general, they certainly larger, but very close, from the series "My Artist" - Four .. : p)
I'm very grateful hostess gallery for an acquaintance. In no case, do not do advertising and promotion, sincerely shared with you, as she is with me ... If the ads were ok and rectify.
The fact that I saw on the stand and in its catalog, a few interesting than the site
Цитата:

Сообщение от sss (Сообщение 73396)
Therefore, when buying a painting of an unknown or little-known artist, obviously, only remains that the painting itself. All information in itself.
What is unknown? Absolutely nothing. Uncertainty can be corrected. Mediocrity irreparable.

      - golden words .., with this, and I remain ...

fross 09.10.2008 13:39

Цитата:

Сообщение от sss (Сообщение 73396)
Serious artists (seriously a Related) avoid relationships with institutions, not serious, preferring to remain in demand only in the narrow circle of professionals. They are not involved in market processes, not because they have decided to retain its independence from the market, but merely stating a fact of this independence, because it was not possible.
      In summary, I note: it is sometimes worthwhile to pay attention not on the awards and exhibitions, and in their absence - this can also be measure with a plus sign.
      Therefore, when buying a painting of unknown or little-known artist, obviously, only remains that the painting itself. All information in itself.
      What is unknown? Absolutely nothing. Uncertainty can be corrected. Mediocrity irreparable.

Thank you for your stories. Mediocrity so flooded that you do not know where I left the island. And as I find them? Maps that only the professionals and then only a narrow circle.:)
Once in the transfer interviewed some American industrialist, on the scale produced varieties of tomatoes, which are extremely good harvest and ripen at the same time and going through mechanized. I asked him: "But your tomatoes absolutely no taste, not afraid that they will not buy?" To which he replied: "Over time, consumers will forget the taste of tomatoes and other mine they would be like"

Glasha 09.10.2008 14:03

Цитата:

Сообщение от fross (Сообщение 73456)
: "Over time, consumers will forget the taste of tomatoes and other mine they would be like"

God forbid ... from such tomatoes at ARTpole

artcol 09.10.2008 14:43

There is only one correct way to choose the artist (in terms of investment) - assessment of its contribution to the history of art. This is in spite of subjectivity - the most objective criterion of objectivity that recognizes the broadest possible range PROFESSIONALS, not involved in the art business (art historians, critics, etc.).
Everything else (especially on what can be influenced - exhibitions, regalia, and even find pictures in the collections) - all more or less manipulated by things that are intended for those who do not understand art, or not yet mature enough to hire a consultant art critic.
There is a book "Investing in Art" (the name can not remember exactly, sponsored the Deutsche Bank), there was an attempt to bring the scientific basis for this case. Read - there all chewed.

sss 09.10.2008 15:02

fross, with tomatoes funny and true.
I am not an ardent admirer of advertising washing powder comfort myself that this - for dull housewives. Find themselves in the shop, I catch myself thinking that in the head with a spinning only «Tide».
I think: "Behold, out of spite, I'll buy another!"
And no other.
--
R.S. something iosif remembered ... 8)


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