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Самвел 02.06.2013 01:03

Цитата:

Сообщение от Magnolia; 2572291"
Coexistence of "Body and Soul" closer than the supposedly separate co-presence of "Body and Soul" in this world.

Continuing the theme saturation Gurdjieff. Interesting version about dushi.VZGLYaDY FROM THE REAL WORLD
Records of conversations and lectures Gurdjieff
Crystallization of the four bodies.
February 17, 1924

Working on yourself is not as difficult as the emergence of desire to work, decision-making. This is the case because our centers need the consent of each other, an understanding of the fact that they need to work together to obey any general manager. But to achieve the consent of them difficult, as the presence of the head, none of them shall remain possible to subjugate others and do whatever you want. Inside the average person is not the owner, and where there is no host, there is no soul.

Soul - the goal of all religions, of all schools. But that's only purpose, only a possibility, not a fact.

The ordinary man has no soul, no will. That which is called the will,

- This is only the resultant of desires. If a person has the desire and at the same time have a desire to the contrary, that reluctance, stronger than the first, then the second becomes dominant and stops the first. This phenomenon is called the common language and the will.

A child is never born with a soul. The soul can be purchased for life but even then it is a luxury available to very few. The majority of people live their entire lives without a soul, without a master, and for everyday life, the soul is not completely necessary.

Читать дальше... 
But the soul can not be born out of nothing. All the material, so it is with the soul, but it has a very subtle matter. Therefore, to find the soul, first of all there must be the matter. However, the matter we do not even have enough for our daily functions.

Therefore, in order to have the necessary materials or capital, we must start with the economy, to make sure that we had something and the next day. For example, when I used to have one day in Murphy, I can only eat half and half delay, or arrange a full starvation. Reserve substances, which needs to accumulate, should be large, otherwise it will soon be exhausted.

If we have a few crystals of salt, and we'll throw them in a glass of water, they dissolve rapidly. You can add salt again and again, and it will continue to dissolve. But there comes a point where the solution becomes saturated, the salt is no longer soluble and the crystals remain undissolved on the bottom.

The same happens with the human body. Even if the body will be constantly produced materials necessary for the formation of the soul, they will be in it scattered and dissolved. In the body, there must be an excess of these materials is possible only if the crystallization.

The material crystallizes from such excess, takes the form of a physical body, it is a copy of which can be separated from the physical body. Every body has a different life expectancy, every body is subject to the laws of different orders. The new, second body called the astral, in relation to the physical body and this is what is called the soul. Science is close to the experimental proof of the existence of the second body.

If we talk about the soul, then it should be explained that there are several categories of the soul, but to truly be called the same name can only be one of them.

As already mentioned, the soul is acquired over a lifetime. When man began to accumulate the necessary substance, but died before they crystallize, then these substances break down and disperse at the same time with the death of the physical body.

Man, like any other phenomenon is the product of three forces. Let us remember that, like all living things, the earth, the world of the planets and the sun emit emanations. In the external space between the Sun and the Earth is like a mixture of three emanations. Sun emanations which have a large length in proportion to its higher value, reach the earth and even freely pass therethrough because they are the thinnest part. Emanations of the planets reach Earth, but do not reach the sun. Emanations of the earth even smaller. Thus, within the limits of the earth's atmosphere, there are emanations of the three species - the Sun, the Earth and planets. Outside the Earth's atmosphere is not the emanations of the Earth, where there is only the emanation of the sun and planets and even higher only emanations of the Sun.

Man is the result of the interaction of planetary emanations and the Earth's atmosphere with the material elements of the Earth. After the death of an ordinary person's physical body breaks down into its constituent parts, parts of the Earth back to the Earth - the "dust thou art and to dust you shall return." The particles are placed at the planetary emanations, returned to the world of the planets, the particles of the atmosphere back into it. Thus, nothing is as a whole.

If the second body is crystallized within a person before his death, it continues to live after the death of the physical body. Matter of the astral body by its vibrations of matter corresponds to the solar emanations and within the Earth and the Earth's atmosphere is theoretically indestructible. However, the duration of its life can be varied. It can live for a long time, or else its existence is quickly coming to an end. This is because, like the first body and the second body also has a center, and lives in their life is impressed. And, because he lacks the experience and impressions of the material, it is, like a newborn child, must have some training, otherwise the body will be unable to existence. Deprived of the possibility of independent existence, it is the physical body, will soon disintegrate into its component parts.

All that exists is subject to the same law, because, "as above, so below." What may exist in one set of conditions may not exist in other their entirety. If the astral body is faced with the matter of the finer vibrations, it falls apart.

So on. question, "the soul immortal?" in general, there is only one answer: "Yes and no." For a more definitive answer you need to know what kind of soul is meant and what kind of immortality.

As I said, the second human body - a soul in relation to his physical body. And though by itself it is also divided into three principles, taken as a whole, it is an active force, a positive principle as opposed to passive, negative principle - the physical body. Neutralizing force is there a special magnetism, which has not any person, but without which it is impossible to prove the second body power over first.

Development can proceed further: a man with two bodies can be purchased after the crystallization of new substances new properties. In this case, the body is formed within the second third, sometimes referred to as mental. Here, the third body is the active principle, the second - a defeat, and the first physical body - passive.

But that's not a soul in the true sense of the word. After the death of the physical body astral too can die, after which there will be only mental body. Although this body, in a sense immortal, it sooner or later will die.

Only the fourth body completes possible, bearing in mind the conditions of existence of the earth, human development. It is immortal in the solar system. This body belongs to the true will. This is the real 'I', the soul of man, the owner. It is the active principle in relation to all other bodies combined.

All four bodies which are one inside the other, can be separated. After the death of the physical body of the higher bodies can be disconnected.

Reincarnation - a rare phenomenon, and it may or after a very long period of time, or when the physical body of one person is identical to the physical body of another person who had the higher bodies. The astral body can reincarnate, accidentally met with the physical body, but it only happens unconsciously. The mental body is able to make the same choice.

Valerit 02.06.2013 08:22

According to Gurdjieff, all the planets are living beings?
Then the person should strive to be at the normal evolution of the planet?

Магнолия 02.06.2013 09:03

Цитата:

Сообщение от Samvel; 2624161"
All four bodies which are one inside the other

Samvel, I thank you immensely for the generosity of information. Here on the forum, someone wrote that only Samvel Magnolia and mutually understand each other. Hope - not only. Hopefully, understanding the spread like waves from a stone thrown into the water. Just reading more than writing, and they are only visible in the number of the topic itself "Images of the alphabet."

Samvel, this message very vast and requires considerable explanation and examples in modern language.
To start speak for the body, "located one inside the other," a poem written in thought about the words and symbols.

         With O_D And A_K

I am a burden mayalas three days
Three nights awake.
How to express that I have
Not a stone and a rock?

I listened to a long ester,
Watched image.
And suddenly opened a MIP.
And the Voice said to me:

Читать дальше... 
"Hearken! I'll show you
All shapes and colors.
And know! I will punish you,
Kohl did not find the cross.

Harmonies full of white light.
They make sense to build and script.
Look who sounds like a response
Memorize where the connection.

The land itself speak.
It is both God and the king.
And you add up all in the alphabet,
As if that's Chest. "
            ___

Silent sky height,
But the star lights
Whispered: "Shout" It dA! "
We are here with you alone. "

Frightening depth of the abyss
And the light from distant places.
I loudly shouted: "Here dA! (Russian - Z)"
So take the first cross.

Ah, the stars, the stars! You are everywhere.
You gave people know
What Everyone - God his fate.
How to tell it?

And the same voice said to me:
"Look at the wonderful canvas.
There are points, lines, Carnival!
The answer is simple.

Here is the circuit. Draw a glance
One of the horn mouth.
And that's enough! No more sorrow,
There will come a unicorn. "

Laughed star many times,
What man could not
Show your first story.
In short - Capricorn.

And the air picked up my voice,
Like a bolt spring in May.
A person spotted near the eyes.
I heard: "Ah! (English - I)"
             
In the womb of Mother Earth
I'm not alone.
In the least able to distinguish
We have our names.

Let someone somehow sounds -
Responds the other.
Living soul is not silent.
So take a second cross.

And the circuit is not far off -
Took care of the Creator!
I live on the mainland,
On the island - twin.

He's bridge as settling in the morning,
I passed on it.
He gently said to me, "Sister."
I found a third cross!

Carry through life two crosses:
- Human and mother.
There was even the mother of Christ.
Where to put a fact!?

"What to do!? What to do?!! -
Teased heaven. -
Yes, just to name a Virgin!
That's the wisdom of the whole! "

I shot in the heart twin.
It was and the Beast, and God.
I named it "Sagittarius"
For all that do smog.
               
The very ticked Cross
For the fact that he is a fighter.
And then she decided to
I went with him to the altar.

I thought about the evening.
As the fruit ripens Life?
And I secretly christened
Cherished his stomach.

That night I went to Heaven:
"Say, Space and Vys,
How did my land?
Where did all come from? "

I look Sky hugged,
And the star lit:
"We are all heavenly bodies.
Carefully scrutinized!

A horse grazes. Baran lies.
Here's Swan - the two wings.
But the honorable veteran.
And there is an arrow flies. "

In all keys sound body
But not moos Taurus.
Then I guessed at once:
Silent young man accustomed to.

No one can say who is there,
Until the light flashes.
Dita will reveal itself
Cherished a secret.
               
I baptize him again.
The holy name of the ladies.
If only God would let me know -
Malec il maiden there?

I kiss the fifth cross
Ready to hundreds of times.
On the help of God will call,
That body God has saved.

It had taken refuge there in secret
As a crustacean shell.
Solving the mystery of the cross,
And Cancer - the sixth icon.

From the Sun to the Earth-Ra Light
Carries its rays
And bakes the life of Heat
In the mysterious oven.

Yes, hurry up and put up -
That's the sign of Aries tart.
But exactly in time to ripen
And the roses, and tobacco.

I equinox star
Gave a large down payment.
I've been waiting for many months,
I was hoping for a chance.

It was the seventh hard cross.
How hard is it to live and wait
When the hope of time to eat,
And you want to fly.

And that happy day has arrived.
From the prophetic fire
Life went up on a pedestal,
Flashing and ringing.

The queen Mira - Salt of the Earth -
Daughter of Light and Heat.
It was once dubbed
Wife of Leo.

It came from outer space,
In a galaxy gone,
And from the magic numbers
Any thought recoil.
              ___

I am a burden mayalas three days
Three nights awake.
Now you know how I
All signs understood.

              ***

© Magnolia Dmitrieva.


A John Doe once plunged into the abyss of the same ideas about what I think, Samvel, Gurdjieff ... John Doe has given names. We use them, do not always understand their meaning. But if you think you immerse yourself into that abyss .........

artcol 02.06.2013 09:19

Цитата:

Сообщение от Samvel (Сообщение 2624161)
Working on yourself is not as difficult as the emergence of desire to work , decision-making . This is the case because our centers need the consent of each other , an understanding of the fact that they need to work together to obey any general manager. But to achieve the consent of them difficult, as the presence of the head , none of them shall remain possible to subjugate others and do whatever you want. Inside the average person is not the owner, and where there is no host , there is no soul .

As it looks like a portrait of one forumchanin .

Added after 10 minutes
Цитата:

Сообщение от Valerit (Сообщение 2624251)
According to Gurdjieff, all the planets are living beings?

Yes, at this point it is a theory of scale.


Цитата:

Сообщение от Valerit (Сообщение 2624251)
Then the man should strive to be at the normal evolution of the planet?

That's about that G. did not say anything.

Valerit 02.06.2013 22:35

Цитата:

Сообщение от artcol (Сообщение 2624281)
This is about that G. did not say anything.

I guess it is.

Самвел 02.06.2013 23:51

Цитата:

Сообщение от Magnolia ; 2624271 "
I listened to a long ester ,

That's what I was recently close. Listen Live . Sometimes the ear is closed and you start to hear the broadcast. These are the unearthly sound , like radio waves, when you adjust the receiver on what or wave ( very similar sounds) . Of course I expect that someone will say clean the ears , then it will not. Well, if a little seriously , in the air (the space that surrounds us , it is broadcast. And in this space you can pass something . On the basic level , it is when two people in the crowd overcame each other. Or did you meet with different eyes . to each other you did not say anything , but something happened between you . something happened .

Магнолия 03.06.2013 02:39

Цитата:

Сообщение от Samvel ; 2624161 "
Citation Gurdjieff : "A child is never born with a soul. Soul is available for life but even then it is a luxury available to only a few. Most of the people live their entire lives without a soul .. . , for everyday life, the soul is not completely necessary .
But the soul can not be born out of nothing. Reserve ......... substances that need to accumulate , should be large , otherwise it will soon be exhausted .

This is the simplest part of Gurdjieff's thought that the baby - it's a blank slate, on which information is recorded . Suitability " sheet " is defined by genetics. Size of the " leaf" is not unlimited , and we must protect ourselves from useless information .

Added after 16 minutes
Цитата:

Сообщение от Valerit (Сообщение 2624251)
According to Gurdjieff all the planets are living beings?
Then the person should strive to be at the normal evolution of the planet?


The following discussion focuses on the life of information or, in the words of the great Russian thinker Vernadsky, the noosphere.

Added after 10 minutes 33 minutes
Цитата:

Сообщение от artcol; 2624281"
Quote:
Posted by Valerit
"According to Gurdjieff, all the planets are living beings?"

Yes, at this point it is a theory of scale.

The theory of the scale was set long before Gurdjieff's evangelical writings of early Christianity.
Here is an example of gradualism positing information: "Knowing the strict and virtuous life of John, when he heard his teaching, full of majesty and power, came to him many residents of Judea and Jerusalem, and were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins. Success of his preaching was so great, the people coming for baptism was set such that secretly many began to think that Saint John is the expected Messiah. «I indeed baptize you with water:, - That John answered - but the one coming after me is mightier than I, of whom I am not worthy to untie shoes; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire »(Lk 3, 16). these words, John gave the answer to the secret thoughts of the people of themselves and clearly testified that he is not the Christ, but only a servant of the Saviour and the Baptist E-ra. "
http://www.vidania.ru/saints/zitie_i...predtechi.html


Baptism with water - this is the first step of informing - dipping into the set of labels (names) of objects of the material world.
The second phase of awareness - to baptize with the Holy Spirit - to give the knowledge of intangible concepts through words, composed of letters, codes of divine symbols of natural principles.
Baptize with fire (Sun) - the third stage of awareness - an evangelical, that is intuitive apprehension of truth.

Gurdjieff translated evangelical thinking about informing the language of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries. I reveal the secrets of the alphabet, to reveal the mechanism of the language of metaphysics XX-XXI centuries.

K-Maler 12.06.2013 16:47

Вложений: 1
Цитата:

Сообщение от Magnolia (Сообщение 2624931)
I reveal the secrets of the alphabet, to reveal the mechanism of metaphysical language of the XX-XXI centuries.


In your topic I want to place text on the number and Thought-Spirit contemporary artist A.P.Zaytseva.
They are remarkably in tune with your research.

Магнолия 14.06.2013 23:56

Цитата:

Сообщение от Magnolia; 2624931"
The theory was given in the early writings of evangelical Christianity.

Early Christianity emerged from philosophical reflection on the process of learning and izyasnyalos only as domestic (native) language. However, in the minds of ordinary people figurative sense, images and metaphors "did not want transferred" to the strange notion. And the servants of spirituality do not really try to explain the symbolism of rituals. Some, like my poll showed, and they do not know. For example, the process of sprinkling water, symbolizing the symbol of all that word, like baptism by dipping into the pool (the symbol of immersion in the knowledge of "head"), survived to the present day. "So it is necessary" - believe parishioners, not zamorachivayas meaning of actions. The term "Trinity" is stored celebration for centuries, but clear explanation so far given only esotericism. And quite naturally come a time when people did not need was the old symbolism of training the subconscious. In place of the clergymen are psychoanalysts. But the clergy clinging to power over the people behind the scenes making the church service in the business.

Магнолия 21.06.2013 13:17

Цитата:

Сообщение от Magnolia; 2637451"
Early Christianity emerged from philosophical reflection on the process of learning and izyasnyalos only as domestic (native) language. However, in the minds of ordinary people figurative sense, images and metaphors "did not want transferred" to the strange notion. And the servants of spirituality do not really try to explain the symbolism

Another example - a primitive understanding of the image of St. Panteleimon as a doctor.
Becoming a Christian was going to struggle with paganism. Here's how this is reflected in the life of St. Panteleimon, "Becoming gratuitous doctor Panteleimon deprived many physicians incomes, and on it went denunciation of the emperor Maximian, that Panteleimon visits Christians in prison and treat them in the name of Christ. Panteleimon emperor summoned and asked to refute the accusation. Holy Emperor offered call one terminally ill and arrange the test. Who will heal him: he or pagan priests - and the belief that the truth should be. According to his Life, the pagan priests were not able to heal the sick, and the power of prayer Panteleimon gave the paralytic healed. After that many came to believe in Christ, and Maximian hardened by Panteleimon and gave orders to torture him, and then throw a heavy stone into the sea. Panteleimon But unhurt "isolated phrase means pobornichestvo for replacing the pagan to Christian faith.

During a holiday in Cyprus I have had many conversations about the alphabet, on the Russian alphabet and features of the fourth period of natural principles encoded Cyrillic letters. Including the monks of monasteries. One of them (very old) said I was - a true follower of St. Panteleimon. Moreover, Cyprus gave me jewelry made Sv.Panteleimona icon.
Upon returning home, I began to search for answers to the questions: "That's why I named Pantaleon?", "Why he depicted the young?", "Why a healer?", "Symbolizing the box with three compartments in his hand?" ...
With tips on the forum AI I got acquainted with the next reference is not biased. Much cleared: spiritual healing, the healing power of words to repeatedly pointed infinitely respected my Gumilev, three offices, drug boxes, I saw a kind of symbol of the Trinity - the unity of the physical-alphabetic reasonable-divine. Ikonoved explained that saints are portrayed in their aged care in the information world.
It turns out that he had talked with me monastery old man and a woman, gave the icon to know the hidden meaning of the image Panteleimon.
A semantic name, I myself easily read.

One of the themes of the conversation turned to the Mystery. Ask questions and mystery will be revealed!


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