Форум по искусству и инвестициям в искусство

Форум по искусству и инвестициям в искусство (https://forum.artinvestment.ru/index.php)
-   Art Kaleidoscope (https://forum.artinvestment.ru/forumdisplay.php?f=236)
-   -   Comparing some of the facts (https://forum.artinvestment.ru/showthread.php?t=207092)

khmelev 16.06.2013 18:19

Цитата:

Сообщение от Maroussia ; 2639081 "
Neither before nor after the publication in 1962 of the book of Camilla Gray is no " work " no one drove and did not plan

means neither Kovtun nor Povelikhina or young people grouped around Sterligova , nor many others, interrogates survivors , collecting literally sheets of paper on the remains of the destroyed archives - they no work is conducted to the highest sanction in the form of an official exhibition? <! - ~ 1 ~ ->

Кирилл Сызранский 16.06.2013 18:37

Цитата:

Сообщение от khmelev (Сообщение 2639111)
means neither Kovtun nor Povelikhina or young people grouped around Sterligova , nor many others , may question the survivors , collecting literally sheets of paper on the remains of the destroyed archives - they no work is conducted to the highest sanction in the form of official exhibition? <! - ~ 1 ~ ->

Do not forget to also Savitsky - Director created in 1966 by the State Museum of Art KKASSR .

Pavel 16.06.2013 18:48

Цитата:

Сообщение от khmelev (Сообщение 2638991)
there is some western mythology of the Soviet attitude to the avant-garde.
Since the 60's and 70's - since the publication of the book of Camilla Gray - search work in the Soviet Union was unprecedented. Dozens of people were digging the ground nose to find something worthwhile. Wool phone book, looking for distant relatives, some perish tracks, etc.
Yet know no one knew the name Chupyatova, and the late Eugene F. Gross, Leonid and Vladimir Chertkov Pertts have unearthed about him all that was possible. And so just about every Figurants very unobtrusive.
But the West is still created the myth of some mysterious Vitebsk professors, attics, garages, etc.
Thanks to him managed to push falshaki at Western auctions and keep the crazy prices at the vanguard of the book.
All this now sounds even somewhat romantic, but time is gone forever.
And to believe that the slaughterer Bukhara - Natanova grandfather - was somewhere bunch Kandinsky and Malevich meter size can only without conscience, and for a lot of money.

In the early 60s I was looking at the Gorky Museum of Russian avant-garde 20-30s is very well represented in the main exhibition, and 69-70 g of Astrakhan in the gallery they Kustodiev Korovin I copied and admired a lot of avant-garde works, I do not remember whose collected in the main exhibition Skokov , then director of the museum and the famous schedule. There was even a Chagall-sweeper.

Кирилл Сызранский 16.06.2013 18:52

Цитата:

Сообщение от Maroussia ; 2639101 "
You know better , ...

Yes, I know that Camille Gray was not " SS Prokofiev's daughter ", which is a 53 - m died, and daughter accused Decision of the Special Meeting of espionage and treason and sentenced in 1948 to a court -three 20 years in a strict-regime labor camp (Article 58 - 1a) and confiscation of property of Lina Prokofiev Ivanovna (nee Carolina Codina , stage name - Lina Luber , 1897-1989 ) .

Цитата:

Сообщение от Maroussia ; 2639081 "
big name in art history still means a lot


Маруся 16.06.2013 19:04

Цитата:

Сообщение от Cyril Syzransky ; 2639191 "
Yes, I know that Camille Gray was not a " daughter- SS Prokofiev ," which in the 53rd died and daughter accused Decision of the Special Meeting of espionage and treason and sentenced by a court in 1948 -three to 20 years in a strict-regime labor camp (Article 58 - 1a) and confiscation of property of Lina Prokofiev Ivanovna (nee Carolina Codina , stage name - Lina Luber , 1897-1989).

What do you mean ?
Well, God be with you and with all your calculations ...
So already , thanks to you , the impression that Camille Gray - an impostor , who has never been married to Oleg Prokofiev , has never worked in the Russian archives, all of which she wrote - it is a fantasy for the amusement of Cyril Syzran

Кирилл Сызранский 16.06.2013 19:13

Вложений: 1
Цитата:

Сообщение от Maroussia ; 2639241 "
So already , thanks to you , the impression that Camille Gray - an impostor , who has never been married to Oleg Prokofiev , has never worked in the Russian archives, all of which she wrote - it is a fantasy for the amusement of Cyril Syzran

Yes, you may give any "impression", even this :
Цитата:

Сообщение от Maroussia ; 2639081 "
Neither before nor after the publication in 1962 of the book of Camilla Gray is no " work " no one drove and did not plan

 <! - ~ 7 ~ -> <! - ~ 7 ~ -> <! - ~ 7 ~ ->

khmelev 16.06.2013 19:24

Вложений: 2
Цитата:

Сообщение от Maroussia ; 2639171 "
But all the same questions arise : these young people have left their studies ?
By the way around Sterligova many different researchers has been ... And why classics remembered in Sue
I think you understand what I'm saying , if not - well, name examples where not only young , but veteran and recognized published their research for fun ( without the sanction )

it's not in the research, and in the general enthusiasm . Avant-garde art of giving special prophetic miroizmenyayuschih functions that made ​​it so popular including and rogues .
  Here is a classic example ( as an attachment ) the perception of the people in the art of the late 60 -ies One can imagine that the people engaged in the Wanderers gave each other such gifts ?

Eriksson 16.06.2013 19:42

Subject left little to the side ...
And yet , in my completely outside perspective, " bloody fight " in an environment of quiet critics from The sides look like attempts to combat expert redistribution of the market. Narrow circle of these critics, they are terribly far from the people, but the head of each other a bite - it is they seem to be sacred. <! - ~ 2 ~ ->
However, some do " smeary " or " plastered " , for some reason continue to blossom in the field of extradition expert decisions , while others trampled into the mud without the right to justify himself. Is not it strange ?

Игорь Гурьев 16.06.2013 19:52

Цитата:

Сообщение от Eriksson; 2638941 "
In other words, Mr. Butterwick ready to legalize only those works that have long turned to the west and thus calls into question things , from the collections of the USSR.

That which was reproduced on a branch of the Works. Comrade . Natanova - candid and pure bullshit , made in the best case in the 1990s .

Коллекционер-любитель 16.06.2013 20:20

Цитата:

Сообщение от Eriksson; 2639281 "
Topic has left little to the side ...

I agree . But all the same theme revolves around one : " Examination ".
The most important question for the collector ! He is, after all , it is important to know what he pays money by purchasing a particular job .
Talk on the forum about the quality of the examination in Russia was much. But the proposals specifically responsible for the quality of the examination and granted - no.
I propose to discuss at the forum the issue of settlement of responsibility for the issue of a specialist expert advice .
My proposal .
If the experts working in the State Tretyakov Gallery, Museum, Historical Museum and other museums , having access to the database of the museum to compare the type of construction of the picture and features of the letter of the artist , are beginning to make mistakes ( and this is a reasoned opinion ) - this means expert should be excluded from the attribution of the work for a specified period , for which he should make an independent judgment or refute the fallacy of the opponent, or to re- take the exam on the possibility of conducting the examination.

Eriksson 16.06.2013 20:20

Guriev, Igor, I learned about the existence of Natanova only today.
I see a trend in general.

Кирилл Сызранский 16.06.2013 23:16

Цитата:

has attracted attention of investigators SNZ exclusive art gallery in Wiesbaden, which opened in 2006. It is owned by the three collector, which are known only to the initial letters of the names - the title picture. One of the mysterious owner, 67-year-old Isaac C. arrested. Taken into custody, and a 41-year-old Moez H.
 
The investigation has been collected over a thousand of evidence - including hundreds of canvases, drawings and watercolors in the style of the famous Russian avant-garde. According to Der Spiegel, cheaters do not copy individual paintings, and imitated the style of famous artists and gave out their products for unknown originals.
....................
Many of the works were considered lost, and after the collapse of the Soviet Union emerged as a "sensational discovery" sold "on a sensational price." At first dubious paintings were exhibited in well-known museums, as it gives the impression of solidity and raises prices, says Der Spiegel. Thus, members of SNZ few years ago tried to "impose" a German gallery of watercolor Leon Bakst, who has exhibited in Pereslavl.

here.
 <! - ~ 7 ~ ->

khmelev 17.06.2013 07:54

yes, a gallery, and which is the subject of this topic.

Stands as an acronym: S - Shalom (this greeting or name of co-owner I do not know), N-Natanov, Z-Zaruh - Isaac Zaruhi.

The article written Isaac C.

Tunisian - just an employee.

And they say that the Jewish-Arab friendship impossible ...

Кирилл Сызранский 17.06.2013 12:53

Цитата:

Сообщение от khmelev (Сообщение 2639601)
The author writes Isaac T.

That's right, the German "z" - "n".

Seriy 19.06.2013 21:14

http://www.nashagazeta.ch/news/15223

Interview with granddaughter Jawlensky, in Russia it was the last time in 1914, working in Russia, in the province got a brother Dmitri.


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