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-   -   Genghis Khan (okazyvaesya. ..) (https://forum.artinvestment.ru/showthread.php?t=71262)

Мимопроходил 25.06.2010 14:17


Кирилл Сызранский 25.06.2010 14:21

Вложений: 1

Мимопроходил 25.06.2010 14:27

Цитата:

Сообщение от Cyril Syzranskiy (Сообщение 1161862)
Yeah, the capital city and the "settled community"-on paper. There are nothing but excavations at the possible location of the capital of the Horde in the Astrakhan region.
That I know in the East of the city, Samarkand, Khiva, Khorezm, Urgench ...
Also, and collapsed and died, the kingdom, but something is left.

A Kiev-suffering, for example?

Cyril Syzranskiy, I do not plan to fend off your skepticism - all the information on the Horde, you without me, you can find in an Internet. Troy, Schliemann excavated, also still controversial - so that was not her, znachitsa? .. Good luck!

Posted 6 minutes
Цитата:

Сообщение от Cyril Syzranskiy (Сообщение 1161892)
In the Ukraine, My mom had. :D

Praobrazom reduced your "Cossack Mamaia is one of the Glinskys.

Кирилл Сызранский 25.06.2010 14:34

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Сообщение от Mimoprohodil (Сообщение 1161902)
all the information on the Horde you without me you can find in an Internet.

I "Inet" and do not need, I question myself for the Horde closed in the 80's. I have some issues there, I was just slightly fluzhu in free offtopovoy essentially subject. :D

Added after 8 minutes
Цитата:

Сообщение от Mimoprohodil (Сообщение 1161902)
Praobrazom reduced your" Cossack Mamaia is one of the Glinskys.

The prototype of the hero Ukrainian folklore, stress. :)
Oral up to a certain time, actually. :p
And we all know that the main points of the national oral tradition - it is anonymous, collectivism, traditionalism, by a formula, variability, presence of the artist. Kobzar there this could naispolnyat under bandura. :D

burevestnik 28.10.2010 11:11

Цитата:

Сообщение от Sim (Сообщение 1160941)
NATA NOVA, ... But you think about why our fate in the modern and contemporary times - catching up modernization. Imagine a tribute to - "for a protein with smoke," for "sword with smoke," etc. Well this is how many "white" and "swords" a year from each locality. Ie economics does not work on their people, to its development. And technology is evolving, not upgraded because work on the nomads - a different civilization. ... That's how the results look yoke. They just have less time elapsed than us.

Basically, you're right. But the "nomads" - it's unlikely that you, like many, many, I'm sorry, "were brought up on Yana and Kargalove and others like them" and bought the corresponding persistent stereotype ("no dissent") in respect of the Tatars and the general Horde (including the Russian Horde - of which was actually quite a lot).

What you describe, really, "the results of oppression, but oppression is not" Mongol "- well, you yourself think - according to the exchange of Russian history, how much time has passed since the" liberation "from thereof, in which the rules of" free from the Tartars " kings? Really had any kind of "catch-up" - if they were able to more or less a meaningful rule of in the interests of the people (the people) of their country, and, most importantly, the system would have to comply with the add of interest.

But there are logical, based on facts explanation onomu, permanent and lasting for centuries, "backwardness" and as to why the Russian state of the Romanovs, "located in a country as an occupying army" (Hertz). In fact, all lag behind Western Europe - if we consider the story objectively, without taking for granted antiordynskie thesis and anti-Tatar-slogans - this is a consequence of Iga (namely that "economy is not working for the people, for their own development, but on a different civilization "), only Iga no mythical" Mongol ", a real yoke," Romano-Germanic "(Prince NS Trubetskoy).

That is sensible article on this subject (in the article links to more detailed and reasoned information sources and provided by appropriate reference material):


"about the true history of strategic ethnic groups of Eurasia

of blessed memory of my ancestor Genghis Khan
On the rakish horse like the wind before thunder,
In a brilliant shell flew in the enemy camp
And the powerful Tatar hand dissected
All that resisted the hero is able to
(Poet Denis Davydov, prince, general, hero of the War of 1812)


Much of hidden pro-China and pro-Western historians indicates that the Tatars Chyngyz Khan - direct ancestors of most modern Tatars, many representatives of the Turkic peoples, as well as many Russian - belong to the history of Russia and the CIS, no Khalkha Mongols and Chinese. Meaning in the composition of the Chinese "false history of the Mongols" (Gumilev LN) was precisely to create Power Mongol explain the "gathering of lands of the Great China" ancestors Khalkha Mongols - a sprig of Great Han (ie, Chinese) people "- this "theory" and still "in vogue" among Chinese historians and ideologues.

Was a great sense of concealing the true role of the Tatars Chyngyz Khan and their fellow-Horde in the history of the Romanovs, and for Westerners who established "Romano-German yoke" over the peoples of Russia-Eurasia in the XVII century (NS Trubetskoy).

But this all just below - first let us consider briefly the myth of "Bulgarish origin of the Tatar people, rooted in the official historiography of Russia along with the likes lzheteoriyami. This myth was once the basis for the ideology of the local "Bulgar" nobility, aspired to the "independence" from the rest of the Tatars of Eurasia.
Читать дальше... 

We used this myth, both before and during the creation of the Golden Horde, and during its collapse its opponents. When the Roman-German yoke, and Especially when Peter Romanov Sia "Bulgar theory" used to justify the black legend of the "Tatar conquerors who came from the Far East in the XIII century, zelo helpful in rastatarivaniya and de-Russification (the" Europeanization ") of Russia.

Now, "Bulgar theory" used to justify the idea of "Bulgar-Tatar" separatists of the "independent Bulgaristane-Tatarstan", trying to separate the part of the Tartars (supposedly "Bulgars") from the rest of the Tatars of Russia-Eurasia and the elimination of the Tatars as a single nation with ethno-political map of the world. All this, according to the "agents of influence" of certain forces, should also contribute to the weakening and collapse of Russia. Since separated by dissolving the Tatars - a monolithic ethnic group (people) who lives across Russia, some people will be much easier to "divide" and its territory into many smaller "independent" quasi-state.

But as untenable and sewn with white thread, "Bulgar theory" was not accepted by the Tatars, remembered from his ancestors his true past.

Complete failure "theory of the origin of Bulgar Tatars" is visible in the fact that the ancient Bulgars, made his way to the Volga region somewhere in the VII-VIII century, leave en masse from the Volga region much earlier, "the invasion of the Tatars" - roughly VIII-IX centuries. - And since then, as we know, and stay beyond the Danube, still called - "Bulgaria". As well as "Madjars - Hungary (their name was in Persian - bashgird). And the only areas in which to IX century, inhabited by about - among other peoples and tribes - the ancient Hungarians and Bulgars, have kept their names as place names - "Bulgar", "Majar (Meshera, Mishәr"), "Bashgird" (Bashkort "," Bashkortostan "). Just for example, as the name of Siberia (from the name of an ancient people "Savirien).

Remaining in a small number of Hungarians and Bulgarians were assimilated by the local and outsiders Turks arriving from the south and south-east, gradually, V-IX centuries. And even earlier in the Volga, the Urals and in the steppe and forest steppe of the Volga to the Black Sea. The main dominant ethnic group among the conglomerate narodtse and tribes of aliens Turks - kypchaks-polovtsev - and had a separate ethnic group (the people) and self-titled "Tatar."

Let us deliberately confused by the official historians-Western origin of the name and self-known to all of old people "Tatars" - is primarily a self once mighty people, that is, the Tartars called themselves from time immemorial "Tatars", "Tatar people "- as to the era of the Mongol-Tatar" and "in the era of the Mongol-Tatars, as well as after - until now.

Does the name "Tatar" from the Turkic word "Totaro" ("o" is pronounced close to "a") - means: "Those who can hold (contain) in order" - such as a country.
The name "tartare" - in every way fleece official "historians of the Tartars", along with other negative "declination" (and poor "translation-interpretation) of the name" Tatars "- has a beginning with the publication of a Catholic Englishman Matthew Paris (1240's) , eerily frightened, like all his fellow Catholics, Ordyntsev onslaught on Western Europe. This was done in retaliation for the Horde crusades in Russia, - in order to discharge the same trips were no longer recur. Since Matthew "wrote as heard, it was forced to write in English is« Tartar », as in English, if you write" Tatar ", then we obtain by reading:" teytar. Well, after the readers and successor of St. Matthew (yes, and like himself - can, and who suggested) and develop the theme of "interpreting" Tartar "Matthew as" messengers of hell, "etc.

Data eastern sources, for some reason little-known public show Tatar (not a "Bulgar" and "kypchaks-polovtsev", namely, the Tatars) long before the "Mongol-Tatar invasion" - as in Central and West Asia and in Eastern Europe. And also on events from ancient times (from about VIII century), "Kinship Chyngyz Tatar Khan with Kipchaks. However, Western sources, and blurts out that the Tatars and the "Tatar invasion in the XIII century. "Living on land where they live Kuma - ie kypchaki-Polovtsy.

Now we discover something previously hidden and little known today about Chyngyz Khan, his kinsmen and associates, so a "Mongol-Tatar invasion and yoke":

In the middle of the XIX century, the Russian academician VP Vasiliev, who spoke Chinese, Manchu, Khalkha languages, with the departure to China within 10 years studying the little-known historical sources, hidden from the "prying eyes" the writers of the official version of "History of the Mongols," we know from textbooks. At the same VP Vasilyev said that the Chinese Ming dynasty by overthrowing the end of XIV century, during the 20-year war power of the Mongol-Tatars in the eastern part of Eurasia, "was his" History of the Mongols, and therefore the history of the origin of Genghis Khan and his government is hidden in the darkness. " But still, numerous reliable information about Chyngyz Khan and his Tartars, and their associates.

In Russia and Eurasia, as partly known to the Romanov rule Ordynskaya dynasty - is Chyngyz Khan, his fellow tribesmen and their allies, the political community which consisted of representatives from different nations, mainly from the Tatars and other Turks, but also from Russian, was called "Mongols" (or, in other words, Horde).

The name "Mongol» is derived from the Old Tatar words: "Maenge (Mәңge) - which means" eternal ", and" Maengel (Mәңgel) - "Forever", this word was chosen as the title of his Power Chyngyz Khan and his associates. Thus the name "Mongol" was not originally an ethnic name of a tribe or people, and was named a political community, such as "Soviet."

In principle, it was explained VP Vasil, but his information was, in fact, hidden from the public. Version of the name "Mogul", found in some authors, due to a lack in their own language (letter) back consonants "n" ("ң"), the Latin alphabet - "ng". The British, for example, still pronounce the word quite close to the original: "Mongol".

While he Chyngyz Khan and his own people were called and self "Tatars", and "did not speak the language, which we now call" Mongol "(V. Vasiliev). and Tatars Chyngyz Khan lived far to the west of those places where they were "determined" the writers of the history of the Mongols. "

In addition to race medieval Tatars were not any "Mongoloids" (type Khalkha Mongols or Chinese), and were "Europoids Oriental type (LNGumilev) - about the same as the modern Tatars in the majority and Russian Tatar origin. For example: "The Chinese are naturally beardless, and the Tartars, Saracens (Persians) and Christians (Europeans) - with beards," explained the difference between Chinese, "Mongoloid" from Representatives of the European races the Italian Marco Polo, who lived among the Tatars, descendants of the tribesmen and Chyngyz- Khan's 17 years old.
Note that all information, Academician VP Vasilyeva coincide with the set of data from historical sources from different times and peoples from different areas of Eurasia, including the Tatar.

Romanov-Westerners, following the capture of power in the country as a result of the Troubles, arranged by their patrons by the Jesuits, the Catholics in the early XVII century. Had to be in every way "discredit" Ordyntsev in order to prevent them an opportunity to return to power. To this end, in the writings of foreign advisers, "the history of Russia, the Tatar Horde presented a" semi-wild nomadic conquerors. " And their fellow Russian princes - "accomplices of wild conquerors of the Tatars," he says, "such as the Tatars, despots against their people." For example, NM Karamzin wrote that the faction of the Romanovs, the last Westerners hate Horde Tsar Boris Godunov, namely, "for belonging to a tribe Mogul" - in this case istoriosochinitel-Westerner had in mind Godunov belonging to a community media ideology Mongol-Ordyntsev.

The representatives of contemporary Russian Official (and still essentially Western-) historical science, seems to never go beyond, certain basic postulates, Romanov has given foreign specialists on draw up a "History of Russia" and "promoted" through the centuries by their followers. Despite the fact that in this history-theory of the main ethnic groups (peoples) of Russia-Eurasia, both Russian and Tatars, especially their fellow Turks, in the role of "backward and non-historical peoples," "eternal enemies" and (or) "slaves "each other at different periods of history.

Therefore, it is Russian and Tatars in the first place, one must objectively look at their overall true story - though critically evaluating the postulates-stamps the Romanovs and the "oriental" historians who denigrate our ancestors, are opposed, and oppose them in the past - in his historical works - in order to oppose us in the present and future. This was done in order to successfully install the "Romano-German yoke" (NS Trubetskoy) in the XVII century, and have the opportunity to continue to influence us with his "advice and direction" - thus successfully continue this yoke.

-Western Historians silent on the participation of many nobles and educated people including the Russian in the affairs and wars of the Tatars, "at least twenty years before the" invasion of the Tatars in Russia ". hush official historians as the presence of the Tatars in Eastern Europe and Western Asia long "before the conquest of the Tatars." While there are substantial information that the Tatars (not "Polovets, namely the Tartars), long before the" Mongol-Tatar invasion, "have participated in the fighting on the side of the Russian princes, uniters, seeks to establish law and order in Russia, and, accordingly, peace and prosperity for its people.

We note one important point, concealed historians Westerners (and "Easterners" - afraziytsami and Chinese). According to the research of Academician VP Vasiliev, Tatars led Chyngyz Khan is from the west come to the war in response to the aggression and the Tangut kingdom Tszinskoy Empire (north and north-east of modern China), which "every three years, sending troops far north-west to destroy and plunder the Tatars . That is, the Tatars Chyngyz Khan - in order to coerce the world irrepressible eastern neighbors - are making their "invasion" on them by the East Turkestan, Altai region, Volga region, etc.

And here is essentially that: medieval Tatars, the native people Chyngyz Khan, as evidenced by many of the details of historiography, in principle, have nothing in common with the semi-wild nomads, especially the ancestors of the Mongols Khalkha. In Tatar khan Chyngyz "language, customs, material and spiritual culture were similar to the Turkic Uighurs of East Turkestan (VVBartold)," the people of growers, merchants and craftsmen (LNGumilev). According to many credible information from the world historiography of different times, medieval Tatars still "before the era of Genghis Khan built the city with high culture, led a transcontinental trade, possessed skills in a major river shipping, metallurgy, arable farming and in every way" patronized agriculture. " Information about this and try to hide from the public's pro-Western and pro-Chinese historians.

such examples in the world historiography weight, but they are in every way "cost" (in fact, hidden from public) pro-Western and pro-Chinese historians, among whom the official historians of professionals, unfortunately, the majority.

We note particularly that the relationship of the Horde and Russia, as well as the relations of Russian and Tatars on the political space Jochi Ulus and Muscovy in the XIII-XVI centuries were quite different than that described by historians and describe the pro-Western. Namely (in a nutshell "): the basic opponent Horde (Russian tsars and princes, and the Tatar khans and MPD), and their peoples during the reign Ordynski in Muscovy-Russia was precisely the Catholic West. And the influence of the political organization of the Great Horde, and he created the State Power Mongol promoted economic and cultural development as Russia and countries of other peoples of Eurasia, were part of a federation "Eternal Shire of the Great Horde.

But after learning and understanding of these key points have a different picture begins to take shape the history of the Fatherland, a non-contradictory, but it does not correspond to the "theory of the Tatar invasion, conquest and the yoke" and other tenets of pro-Chinese and pro-Western historiography.

Questions (topics), above, thoroughly worked out and dealt with in the books of the pupil and follower, LN Gumilev, Tatar historian GR Enikeeva Crown Horde Empire "(Moscow," Algorithm ", 2007) and" Memories of a black legend "(Moscow," Medina ", 2009).

Ghali Enikeev leads in their books information from historical sources and works of historians and researchers of different ages and different nations, is largely obscure, and compares them with each other and with the precepts of the official historiography, on the relevant links to sources.

On books, GR Enikeeva see an article, review the honorary leader of the Tartar Nobility Assembly (Majlis Tatar MPD (biyev)) M.Sh. Mamleeva "Discover its history." http://tartareurasia.ucoz.com/publ/1 There is a review of Doctor of History, DM Iskhakov on the first work (the book), GR Enikeeva "Genghis Khan and the Tartars: Myths and Realities." On the basis of and in the development of the content of this work and subsequent written two books Enikeeva GR, notwithstanding that the slightly higher.

The contents, cover and clarifications to the cover and book chapters, GR Enikeeva "In the footsteps of the black legend" here: http://tartareurasia.ucoz.com/publ/knigi_enikeeva_gr/5

On the cover of a medieval portrait Chyngyz Khan, reproduced, taking into account information Tatar historical source, "On the genus Chyngyz Khan" and other information from the world of historiography - perhaps with a somewhat unexpected appearance of many (non-Chinese and Khalkha), with blue eyes and bushy red beard ".

Source: http://shkolazhizni.ru/archive/0/n-35130/

burevestnik 07.02.2014 14:13

Well, there's more...
 
There's more something a little known - or rather, well forgotten old - information about Genghis Khan and his native people.

Interestingly, but many of the Turkic peoples - for example, as the modern Tatars so many of other Turkic peoples – knew and remembered that Genghis Khan was their ancestor and tribesman since ancient times. Besides, this is stated in many ancient sources - about it is spoken as in the Tatar historical sources, so in many sources of other Nations: Arabic, Chinese, Russian, Turkish and West European.

Only this theme about Genghis Khan, rather, the truth about his origin, his native ethnos and his affairs was taboo - as in official history of the Romanov's, so and during the Soviet-Bolshevik regime.

But now is revealed the historical truth about that the native ethnos of Chingiz-Khan was one of the medieval Turkic ethnoses - medieval Tatars - the ancestors of the modern Tatars and other fraternal Turkic peoples. "Тhe Secret history of the Mongols" - known in the official history - was composed by Chinese historians in the second half of the 14th century. These Chinese historians were ideologists of those who fought then against the Tatars of the Horde in China.

After anti-Tatar data of the composition "about the war Tatars against the Chingiz-Khan" etc. was repeated by Persian Rashid ad-Din, who was an enemy of the Tatars of the Golden Horde.
So, in point of fact, these are only in these two sources and in the derivatives from them there are report that "Tatars were the enemies of the Chingiz-Khan".
But many other sources of those times reported that "Tatars are a Turkic tribe, and their king is the Chingiz-Khan" (Arabic Ibn al-Asher, 1219), "in 1187 Tatars had elected a King for themselves, whose name was Genghis-Khan" (Marco Polo, 13-th century), "Tatar's Khan Temuchin declared himself as Emperor and Tatars named his "Genghis-Khan" (a lot of Chinese sources) etc.

Such sources, I repeat, are very much, but they are not very known to the General public at the present time.
However, recently were published books by independent Tatar historian Galy Yenikeyev, about the unwritten (hidden) real history of Tatar Nation.
So, about everything above mentioned and a lot of the true history of the Tatars and other fraternal Turkic peoples, which was hidden from us, had been written, in detail and proved, in the book "Forgotten Heritage of Tatars" (by Galy Yenikeyev).
There are a lot of previously little-known historical facts, as well as 16 maps and illustrations in this book. This e-book you can easily find in the Internet, on Smashwords company website: https://www.smashwords.com/profile/view/MIG17

On the cover of this book you can see the true appearance of Genghis Khan. It is his lifetime portrait. Notes to the portrait from the book says: "...In the ancient Tatar historical source «About the clan of Genghis-Khan» the author gives the words of the mother of Genghis-Khan: «My son Genghis looks like this: he has a golden bushy beard, he wears a white fur coat and rides on a white horse» [34, p. 14].
As we can see, the portrait of an unknown medieval artist in many ways corresponds to the words of the mother of the Hero, which have come down to us in this ancient Tatar story. Therefore, this portrait, which corresponds to the information of the Tatar source and to data from other sources, we believe, the most reliably transmits the appearance of Genghis-Khan...".

Кирилл Сызранский 07.02.2014 14:22

Цитата:

Сообщение от burevestnik (Сообщение 2983721)
that the native ethnicity of Genghis Khan was one of the medieval Turkic ethnic groups - the medieval Tatars - the ancestors of modern Tatars and other fraternal Turkic peoples.

Ancestors of what "modern Tatars"?
Kazan?
Kasimov?
Astrakhan?
Siberian?
Or maybe the Crimean?

Андрей Жданов 07.02.2014 15:58

Yeah, there are still write that Genghis Khan was a devout Muslim chock.

burevestnik 08.02.2014 09:37

Цитата:

Сообщение от Кирилл Сызранский (Сообщение 2983742)
Ancestors of what "modern Tatars"?
Kazan?
Kasimov?
Astrakhan?
Siberian?
Or maybe the Crimean?

Well, actually all Tatars are one Nation. Only in the anti Tatar and anti Horde ideology they are divided into different nations. All of this is explained in the book "Forgotten Heritage of Tatars" (by Galy Yenikeyev): https://www.smashwords.com/profile/view/MIG17

Кирилл Сызранский 08.02.2014 11:13

Цитата:

Сообщение от burevestnik (Сообщение 2985541)
Well, actually all one people Tatars.


Цитата:

Сообщение от burevestnik (Сообщение 2985541)
Well, actually all one people Tatars.

Well, actually the ethnonym "Tatars" referred to different people, united by language.
All of them - Turkic-speaking peoples.


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