Fed, except Bosch and Bruegel was a lot of artists.

Pablo, draw people for different reasons <! - ~ 1 ~ -> and "grain " is not necessary here . Such a person could be an inventor , be creative in another area , simply because he is the creator . I think so.
The training system has long been established , the better for us already selected , salt, broth and ready to eat. I do not think that 's all right so talented nuggets . Even nugget must learn and teach. Knowledge gives the freedom of expression. All of us exactly affected by the environment , ideas, fashion , exhibitions .... If you want to give birth to her only , never borrow .... It should be born in a dark basement with no windows , books , tv , music, art and people. Although , I doubt that if something happens.

Write - (Notre Dame - from Alma-Ata, lives and teaches in nemetchine), smart, tough, sensible lady with a lovely outlook.

You are too categorical.
Any person, even from another planet - Germany, have sensible ideas.
Notre Dame: ".. Art education in Russia is built using traditional building skills strictly in the framework of the thematic and genre.
In the worst. academies in the West in the development of skills pays no attention: you may very surprised, but many of them are classes in drawing ... Voluntary (!) T is, they are not among the disciplines necessary artist. It's the same with plastic anatomy.
Here in etching, lithography, ksilografskih workshops the students really want to understand all the intricacies of the process technology. A drawing? And to hell with it, with a picture! He somehow perceived as - among other things. This is how many lovers of literature comprehend the rules of grammar, never looking at the books. They are in all of these adverbial-participial speeds understand intuitively. But that's what a miracle! - A few years after graduating from the Academy, these - do not attend drawing classes - students at exhibitions show a surprisingly high level and - more importantly - the original understanding of the pattern.
To the level of Western artists working in the style of photo-hyperrealism, did not reach (and not up) No Russian artist. Fact! But Western students learn more important things than the picture - they learn of creativity as such, freedom of expression, understanding the meaning of art, and they are trained in the art of LIFE.
In many workshops I saw boxes packed with works of students to be sent to any mass, the Biennale, etc. Or vice versa - the unpacked boxes of work, returning from exhibitions in London, Paris, etc. These guys are still students make a name for themselves (what a great merit of their professors) ...
I do not want to attack you on patriotic corn, but I know what the situation is with the painter. education in Russia and in the West firsthand.

Above salon level Russian artists do not rise - so purely decorative images a la "make us izyachno" for the new Russian interior. Western artists themselves that do not stain your hands. What you see on the various Internet sites - is usually of lovers and losers - semi-professionals, do not try to master classes reputable professors. "

Another point of view, someone asked about their higher education system ..
Verstehen Herr Buscador?

How's that?
What is this all inherited genes or?

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And just out of laziness unwillingness to learn , to know .... Therefore, many modern artists and can not rislvat , to build a composition ... And for meaningful - I see - hidden elementary - I can not.

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All they wanted to learn, to understand how others do it, recognizing the greatness of other artists.

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The task of schools - learn to draw, work with color, right to build a composition, etc.
Give all that the artist should be able to - craft ..
And then - the talent ..

it is transferred to the literature . education /training, with genes transferred understanding, most likely


of course not without it . I now am not able to draw and it is this idea of self-education spurs <! - ~ 1 ~ ->


Of course, for this and suschetsvuyut cl S would be of interest. Same CX. Understand and learn a little bit different concept , in my opinion, but I think I understand what you mean.

In order not to arouse fierce controversy , I will explain. I'm not against art education , I am for self-education. Of course the one to whom it is required. I believe that self-education is a big plus for self-expression , no wasted years <! - ~ 1 ~ ->

It's just something that goes beyond the criteria - do not need to know how and know vyplesni their emotions , show your inner world ... Without hesitation , as if that show !

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Self has never stopped anyone . Education significantly shortens the path to understanding many things that are just required to put years to understand what is already known to all.

Buscador, <! - ~ 7 ~ ->


Returned to where it started.

Okay, skip that expressed an opinion - and right

" Who has not seen much - a lot of crying ! "

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If a person decides to draw, then he has only paint and a brush . But is there a "grain " in that it will be seen later. And maybe not the one who decided to start painting ...

but with this I think I do not agree

Das verstehe ich. Verstehst du? And that , I need to take a view of Notre Lady. I feel closer to this:
" Technique - this is the language of the artist ; develop it tirelessly to virtuosity . Without it, you will never be able to tell people their dreams , their experiences as seen your beauty. "
" To draw does not mean simply doing contours of the drawing does not consist only of lines. Figure - it is also expression, the inner form , the plan , the modeling ."
"Figure includes more than three-quarters of what represents a painting . If I were to put a sign above my door , I would have written : " School of painting , "and I'm sure that would create painters ."
"Figure - not the form , but a way of seeing it."

And how much do you know of outstanding artists who never studied?
If you have a view of the painting in the traditional sense , that there are none, most likely.
Naive painting insane , Contemporary , etc. - That's another branch. There, you can not learn.
Simply, you need to understand what it is doing . Hoping to write a good traditional portrait never learned anywhere else would be foolish.

[QUOTE=Buscador .. I need to take a view of Notre Ladies . [/QUOTE]

Do not accept and understand that there are a huge number of points of view and ocean views .
One of them : "The world of art - ideally - it's all the real world , to push the creative thought in breadth, upward, inward.
If we imagine a model room of the art world , then the object of our current interest will have to be called mundane household accessories : furniture , walls , windows, and even a non-binding detail the interior, like a mirror.
So, mirror ...
I went up to him easily , familiar terms - and suddenly I notice , as it gradually expands, coarsened , exciting, downright suck more and more visible reality , attaching to it again and invisible . And now, it is not a subordinate element of another world , and is in itself a whole - from anyone and from anything dependent - the world .. " .
Abram Wooleys

Education is not the imposition of this contest . First exam and further competition with fellow students and others , to overcome ourselves . Imitate the teacher on their own. Usually nothing is imposed , and the teacher uvidesh not often. Learn to compete .
Van Gogh studied all my life.

That's why I do not expect to write a good, traditional, portrait.
My destiny - is as follows:

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Pavel, well, what is the competition ? If this is a contest /competition , then it is not art . Competition means " fast ", painting is a creation , and creation can not be " fast" . Note the quotation marks , the concept is exaggerated . Besides not overcome itself, and harmony included .
Van Gogh studied , yes, but not in the same school ? Samoobrazovalsya , uh ? I will not argue - I do not know .

Pavel, well, what is the competition ? If this is a contest /competition , then it is not art . Competition means " fast ", painting is a creation , and creation can not be " fast" . Note the quotation marks , the concept is exaggerated . Besides not overcome itself, and harmony included .
Van Gogh studied , yes, but not in the same school ? Samoobrazovalsya , uh ? I will not argue - I do not know .