Форум по искусству и инвестициям в искусство

- Investing in Art (https://forum.artinvestment.ru/forumdisplay.php?f=66)

- - Margin (https://forum.artinvestment.ru/showthread.php?t=66422)

ranzher, if we talk about old ladies in Russia, those who still something left of Antica, prikrasno know the price on it. The old ladies already operate at full price at Sotheby's withdrawal /Christie. It is in the beginning. 90 old women selling something for a penny. A current 70-year-ladies was then 50 and they are all well aware.

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Сообщение от ranzher (Сообщение 1168132)

And here is my friend, when such an old lady brings him to sell the icon or any other object without knowing its real market value, sends it (gives address) to the experts or auctioneers. How - said they will appreciate these things, at this price I have to you and buy.

Apparently, the effect is the difference in the origin and upbringing.

Strange some conversation - start with the business, and now that the morality-I decided to read?

But if the conversation back to pricing, the issue is often not the greed of a particular seller, and the number of intermediaries between the owner of the painting and the real buyer.
Each broker throws at the picture with an initial value such as a $ 10-15 so its $ 5000 and as a result of the picture comes up to $ 30 000, but I know the example and up to 60 000 $. The funny thing to watch the bid, when the chain is a dialogue that one side or the other.

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Сообщение от ranzher (Сообщение 1168132)

And here is my friend, when such an old lady brings him to sell the icon or any other object without knowing its real market value, sends it (gives address) to the experts or auctioneers.

Oh, and there, where your friend sent the old lady, and she bought. :D

Added after 2 minutes

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Сообщение от ranzher (Сообщение 1168132)

How, - says, they'll appreciate these things, at this price I have to you and buy.

A little old lady, after she offered real money now, thinking: "What shall I wander here and there, here's a once-offer of money from the good deed goes unpunished".
And sell those "experts or auctioneers. :D

I looked at the antique shop, which is an old woman with her hand Shishkin sent to fellow competitors. :p

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Сообщение от ranzher (Сообщение 996)

now that the words "young admin" site neiskusstvovedchesky, and by Remark inquisitive artist, simply about Salvage, then this is a good place to talk about speculators margin.

Is there any theory? Does this account any doctrine, concepts, or, perhaps, the limitations? Even if, for example, mental or moral properties? Or is true maxim, attributed to Charles bearded, about interest earned capital and its inevitable move to samosvinchivaniyu head?

In fact, you can "bestow" the distressed little old lady buying her an icon of American rubles for 1000, and then sell it at auction in London for 100,000 of the same banknotes. Or, say, in the same London to buy a painting scenery for $ 12000, and in his gallery in Moscow sold for $ 50000.

One could hear the dialogue of the Moscow merchant with its western counterparts. At the request of the first to give him something to the commission, the second lamented:
- Yes, I would be happy. Only you are there at home my prices multiplied by two, three ... and all the action is meaningless.
- And you, how many multiply? - Followed by a question.

And you?

Why would that old lady did not sell its icon on the auction? And to go anywhere and foreigners do not themselves come here and buy at a decent price and sell bring. Where is our auction?

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Сообщение от Pavel (Сообщение 1168542)

Where is our auction?

http://www.gelos.ru/about/index.shtml
"Gelos" - the only permanently functioning auction house in Russia, a professional organization engaged in auction. Annually, more than 120, both general and thematic auctions, which sold more than 50,000 antiques of different levels.

And how close to "export abroad" worth "Taxation"? As the export is taxed? And that this was "other, away, away?

Added after 3 minutes
Quote:
Posted by Curious
On the margin.
A margin is the difference between purchase price and the purchase price, of this difference depends on profit.
Message 6 of Cyril Syzran.

«margin», - the term used in Russia only (exclusively) for financial rather than commercial activity. To refute my argument should not flood, it is necessary and sufficient to give the term applied to trading activities of the current RF legislation (including subordinate legislation).

Before you throw stones at art dealers on the value determined by the difference between their bid and ask prices, it would be nice to calculate the cost of the canvas, stretcher frames, paints, solvents and brushes (used in and for the production of an artist selling his paintings) with price sale of the picture itself. This price difference is expressed in the order (1h10n) times greater than that of art dealer. As is true for a similar case Pushkin wrote: "When in Rome ... you see the straw in his - no one sees and logs.
In accordance with the Civil Code selling price is determined by the parties to the contract. No artist has agreed with any of the art dealers (buyers) the price for his painting - dries it as a personal herbarium. Not agreed on the art-dealer sales price of the painting to someone from the buyers - will be dry this herbarium independently. And since the art-dealer bread seems so sweet, that cheeks cramped and saliva flowed, then - the flag in his hands. But first I must buy a little piece of 50 000 green and sell it for 12,000 rubles. And so on, until lyumpenovskaya ideology does not fly out of my head. Completely and forever.

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The assertion that profit trade organization depends on the difference between buy and sell prices, reflects confusion inherent to people outside the business topics.
Under current tax laws of Russia, profits are the difference between earned income and expenditures, and, after taxes and fees. The result is that there is no direct causal link between profit and price difference between buying and selling goods.

With regards to the first part of the post Cyril Syzran, it should be noted dishonesty citation unseemly for such a specialist level, and even more unfounded attribution to me of their grammatical errors. The original question was about the existing problems of art in Russia and in a different way:
« Another question - the difference in the price level with the world that exists in our country to this day. Problems with the export of serious things abroad, taxation and so on, away, away.
I write "other" because you (judging by the theme), these problems are unknown ».
Problems are many and they are known experts in sales. While not the place nor the time to discuss them in this forum - this requires a separate topic.
The current tax system has led to a natural reaction. Art dealers are trying to "no light" transactions, artists are satisfied.
How many artists make an annual declaration and pay the state to settle their outstanding amount of tax on income? I do not know these, but you know them?
The discussion topics emerged from the old virtual Shishkin.
I propose to consider the specific situation.
I have a subscription work of one of Avercamp.
I can burn it (and me for such barbarism nothing will), but I can not dispose of it. Forced to set up conditions inequality Russian prices on the world created by a ban on the export of works over 50 years. So who is the owner of my paintings: I or the State? According to the Constitution of Russia - I, by law has the right to dispose the state (officials).
Conclusion art criticism examination (after stories with Petrov) knowingly (to get acquainted with my painting - just the mention of the author's surname) is known - a copy. But a copy can not take.
Acknowledge my subscription work as the original did not, because its very existence refutes the existing system of attribution of paintings Avercamp.
I rode in the infamous Gelos that for my money order the shooting in the ultraviolet and infrared light, but examination of soil and paint. They refused - they said, spend only on work delivered for sale.
But, I do not mind virtual survivor old woman who had nothing to eat, to sell for such ridiculous prices.
Existing Conditions collectors (collectors) do not "shine" their treasures - do not expose them to review the public and professionals. The threat of expropriation in the country has not disappeared.
It is easy to guess who benefit from such a situation.

Who can tell me the specific place where you can hold technical expertise without art?

curious, tell me, You pinned? Humor, in fact, a kind of you, but oh well, taste for color is no companion. :D

Added after 22 minutes
That just did not understand who you are advise?

Цитата:

Сообщение от inquisitive (Сообщение 1168782)

Only first need to buy a little piece of 50 000 green and sell it for 12,000 rubles. And so on, until lyumpenovskaya ideology does not fly out of my head. Completely and forever.

For the second time you write about the purchase of 50 000 dollars and sell for 12,000 rubles. I am not very clear, this manic-sacral attachment to these numbers ...
Something personal? Why such a proportion and so hard to let more and Board:

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And so on, until lyumpenovskaya ideology does not fly out of my head.

Some council perverts-flagellant? No?
:D :D :D

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Сообщение от Cyril Syzranskiy (Сообщение 1168852)

curious, tell me you so be pinned? Humor, in fact, a kind of you, but oh well, taste for color is no companion. :D

Added after 22 minutes
Only I do not understand who you are advise?

For the second time you write about the purchase of 50 000 dollars and sell for 12,000 rubles. I am not very clear, this manic-sacral attachment to these numbers ...
Something personal? Why such a proportion and so hard to let more and advice:
Some council perverts-flagellant? No?
:D :D :D

I do not attach to you, it turns out the opposite. I'm surprised this swordplay, as a matter of principle, we estimated the differences I noticed. So - passed.

The figures are taken from the first communication (author), but I changed them polarity.
For readable argument reduction cheekbones and saliva from the "easy and simple" work of art-dealer.

For the artist's work of art dealer is excessively easy to obtain profits. None of the artists did not understand the risks and costs, including the inevitable business "flights". You just have to go and setbacks, to ensure that your fortune smiled.
Man does not learn to make money until, until one day he did not go broke.
I wrote this for the envious - I can not stand those.

So I - all this.
And nakakogo sadomasochism.

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Сообщение от inquisitive (Сообщение 1169022)

I do not attach to you, takes the opposite way.

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Сообщение от Cyril Syzranskiy (Сообщение 1168852)

curious, tell me you so pinned?

In this case, I have consumed the words "joking", ie, to laugh, peresmeshnichat, joking, jiving, crack jokes, play, humor, fun, etc.
I'm Your message number 16 is shown rozygreshem.
I could not imagine that someone could "drive" a "blizzard" seriously.
It turns out, maybe ...

-O, lost kalabuhovsky house! - In desperation exclaimed Philip
Philipovich and clapped his hands.
- What will happen now to the central heating? (c) :D

Цитата:

Сообщение от Cyril Syzranskiy (Сообщение 1169092)

I got your message number 16 is shown rozygreshem.
I could not imagine that someone could "drive" a "blizzard" seriously.
It turns out, maybe ...

To blizzard, and to whom - it is clear sun ...:)
But seriously, the technical expertise was a problem for me. Also manifest twenty years of fallout from the topic.
Previously, this problem was solved within 15 minutes after a couple of phone calls. Now: "No other is no more, and those - already far away."
And the situation with the picture it was. Bomb for iskustvovedov.
Two paintings with a story. The presence of paintings with this subject, with the words of Clara Velker, confirmed by Pieter Brueghel the Younger.
I have a subscription picture of a serious museum - no signature (monogram), but the authorship acknowledged. I'm in the center of the painting self-portrait, which is absent in the museum's painting.
As the job of the "Pioneers of Truth" - Find the two pictures ten differences. And many more of them. It is clear that with what copied. In the absence of objections to my arguments appeared competent, but a compromise oral opinion that the two works - copies. A lost original.
The museum has world-class - a copy is issued for the original :)

If not for me concerned - obhohotalsya would :D