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-   -   History of Counterfeiting Grigorieva (https://forum.artinvestment.ru/showthread.php?t=129822)

Кирилл Сызранский 09.02.2014 13:21

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Сообщение от Eriksson (Сообщение 2986881)
To all been understood - the arrest Basner - it Magnitsky of art.

Having said that either a fool or a scoundrel.

Added after 6 minutes
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Сообщение от Eriksson (Сообщение 2987131)


Цитата:

Collector from Germany spent 450 thousand for the painting in the style of Lyubov Riabova.
That they are talking about?
About Liubov Popova and Olga P ozan oic?

Аркадий 09.02.2014 13:30

Цитата:

Сообщение от Cyril Syzran (Сообщение 2987341)
said this or a fool or a scoundrel.

 
Perhaps the combination of both qualities in one person:

 
Michael Slobodinsky, Advisor to the Chairman of RUSNANO

 
https://www.facebook.com/mikhail.slo...?stream_ref=10

Кирилл Сызранский 09.02.2014 13:32

Цитата:

Сообщение от Eriksson (Сообщение 2987131)


Цитата:

Collector from Germany spent 450 thousand for the painting in the style of Lyubov Riabova.
That they are talking about?
About Liubov Popova and Olga P ozan oic?

Added after 3 minutes
Цитата:

Сообщение от mihailovoh (Сообщение 2987211)
steel 3200 unichtozheny.a walk and not already part of the examinations.

Of these designated experts 3200 items 80%- "dedsvoynyprivez".

Added after 5 minutes
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Сообщение от mihailovoh (Сообщение 2987211)
According to Vasilyev ponyatno.chto the particular case (of which not a few) used to fight with anyone to.no not with the system of selling fakes.
Basner and E only a cog in the system.

These assumptions result of your own investigations or you Kremlin insider?

Added after 17 minutes
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Сообщение от Arkady (Сообщение 2987381)
is possible to combine both qualities in one person

And married to a decent Xenia Basilashvili ...

Аркадий 09.02.2014 14:20

Цитата:

Сообщение от Cyril Syzran (Сообщение 2987391)


But married to a decent Xenia Basilashvili ...

 
Then just a fool ..
<! - ~ 1 ~ ->

Кирилл Сызранский 09.02.2014 19:54

Цитата:

Сообщение от mihailovoh (Сообщение 2987211)
used to fight with anyone to.no not with the system of selling fakes.

Here's to you and answer.

khmelev 09.02.2014 21:18

I edited one vopominaniya late scribe until Unreached before printing. Here is what he wrote: " I ​​first got into the family Okunevaya years five or six. Was still alive Boris . Winther He was like my grandfather , so once or twice a month," they engaged in business. "
Cyrus B. absolutely inviolable kept meeting and together with Levitin was detailed catalog for transmission belt . For all the time that has elapsed since the death of BN, it sold a couple of works in museums, but never sold into private hands. Levitin asked to give him some graphics, but was refused.
When she died , then unfortunately the collection disappeared. Traces of this can be seen in the disappearance of small-circulation B.N.Vasileva memoirs .
Thus, in particular , has lost some 8 large canvases Lebedev "

K-Maler 09.02.2014 21:26

Цитата:

Сообщение от Artem; 2988141"
believe that a copy of the web Grigorieva was made until 1986, when the " restaurant " was in the private collection of the St. Petersburg professor Boris Okuneva ballistics and have not been transferred to the museum .

This raises an interesting point: why do high-precision professor ballistics copy? To sell as original Grigorieva ? But then you have to make an option , not a copy . Because the author will not be meticulously accurate , up to the circles on the curtain background repeat their work. Especially in a free manner . Such a consideration is convenient and forger , when talking about counterfeiting . The status of the copy of a very different - it must be accurate . In the case under discussion is an important question: what was needed an exact copy ? After all, this picture has already been accepted into the museum and that two of them will emerge ?

khmelev 09.02.2014 22:08

absolutely no conscience representatives belt.
Absolutely.
Okunev bequeathed his collection to the state.
B. Cyrus while she was alive she was keeping it all to do the will of his father.
Part razderbanit immediately.
Part cloned.
And when caught by the hand, then began to move the arrow to the dead.
That scum!

Кирилл Сызранский 09.02.2014 22:29

Цитата:

Сообщение от khmelev (Сообщение 2988281)
Thus, in particular, has lost some 8 large canvases Lebedev

They disappeared from the collection of BN
Okuneva but not disappeared at all, someone somewhere as they are stored.

Eriksson 09.02.2014 22:38

A feeling that Ms. Latynina simply rewrites forum .

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Another amazing story that happened this week is, of course , the famous art critic arrest Petersburg Elena Basner . Actually, I first saw him when I saw all sorts of terrible blogs that arrest Ms. Basner - this is the second Magnitsky .

Let me remind you what the accused Ms. Basner . She accused that it is an organized group sold a fake picture. Yes ? What 's this world of antiques - it's such sverhzakryty world in which , indeed, exist including forgery. As you know, people do not sell fakes from the street, selling tricks , really , world-renowned art , otherwise , sorry, do not buy it.

And to the question of the authority of Ms. Basner , which is very high, and in general about the customs of this world , I first want to tell you a wonderful sketch , which I told Eugene Vyshenkov , one of the journalists Petersburg openwork. You can tell this sketch , because it is widely known that Eugene was a very close relative who was an expert in forging it .

And , behold, Eugene tells how he comes to the apartment to his relative , and there are 3-4 such specialist stranger paintings counterfeiters , lies in the middle of a large sheet of paper on which a drawing ( graphics), and they all look and name the name of the famous Russian artist of the century and say, " This is not H or H ? Do not understand "" No, it is , of course, I " - says our counterfeiters . And then all four specialist look at each other and say, " Well , that's cool , but Basner not a ride ." This is to ensure that, indeed, Basner - superspetsialist . Yes, it was the height of which we must take .

Читать дальше... 
Continue. What , then , happened to this wonderful thing ? The thing is easy to do, it is difficult to create a biography. And , here , take this thing and give it to a collection of some of the St. Petersburg kollektsionershi , Spades , impregnable. And it hangs there on stenochke until some foreigners come . Foreigners take into circulation , they say , "Well , here we would like something from the Russian avant-garde ." They say , "Well, you know , nothing can advise , but , behold, there is one peak ladies hanging , but it will not sell . You do not think she will not sell . " Foreigners come , look at the wall , come in delight. The lady says, " Do not ask . Here you go , here you statuetochku , here's a pitcher , here kartinochku . This - in any case . "

Poor foreigners buy statuetochku , jug , another kartinochku and , in the end, for the crazy money they buy this here 's a picture schedule. And they take her smuggling , shaking ... They do not know that this is no contraband. This is about how important it is to legalize the thing through skillful expert. That is, note that it is in the world, the fantasy world of deception and closed at the highest level .

So . Tell the story . There is a famous , famous St. Petersburg collector Andrey Vasilyev , who actually collected all my life, since the 80s collected Constructivists . He was there in parallel read Solzhenitsyn. Once it has swept up by the KGB with plenty of Solzhenitsyn's home, once he got out . Please note , this is not the nouveau riche of the managers of Gazprom , is the man , well, that besides the fact that it is well-known collector , he collects more and thematic collections . He is interested in this painting , which has a plot. He is interested , of course , the Russian art of the early XX century, its very much interested in paintings from the collection Burceva .

And this Andrei Vasilyev calls Leonid Shumakov also his friend and says , "You know , I have things from the collection of General Timofeev (a collection of all known general Timofeev - it is very important that the provenance ) , and this work Grigorieva , it is called " restaurant ." And he sends a photo of this painting, and he sends a reproduction of the same things , made ​​with the publication of Burceva " My Journal for the few ."

Vasilyev interested in this job, he buys it for 250 thousand dollars and gives it to the exhibition. It is important to understand why there is expertise . Because in such cases, the most important thing - it's provenance is important, it is the origin of the work . It's like JP Morgan said that " if I bring a dishonest man bail , I do not give him credit for all the deposits in the world. And if the person that I know that I trust , ask me for money without collateral, I give him . " Here is how to get acquainted . But you, when you meet on the street with a girl , you do not say there is " Hello. I want to meet you, now I have a certificate from the mental hospital , I'm not crazy , and now I have a certificate that I have AIDS are not present . " Yes ? Here , in the world of collectors do not make reference , learning that AIDS is not present, do not make reference to the paintings . Important - from painting occurred. In this case, the pattern was the provenance , it was said that it is from the collection of General Timofeev.

Vasilev buys it . Then he puts her on the show, because it is the usual way . Exhibition - it should give the painting a new sound , a painting should begin the story . And then he called out Grabar Center during the exhibition , said , "Excuse me , Andrew, you know , your picture is a fake . She was with us for expertise , we recognized that it fake - it paints a different chemical composition . "

Poor Vasiliev rushes to Shumakov and says " Where did you get this picture? " And he says , "I gave her Basner " ( here is the most famous art critic ) . Note that Mr. Vasiliev and Ms. Basner familiar more than 30 years , and this in itself leads to a lot of thinking that Ms. Basner did not offer the picture directly to Mr. Vasiliev , though, is its theme. She was doing it , she knew that this picture may come to him. That is, apparently , we can assume that for some reason Mr. Vasiliev would not buy pictures from Ms. Basner .

Vasiliev goes to Ms. Basner and asks "Elena , where did you get this picture? " (They are "you" ) She says , "I will not answer that question." He replies, " Well, how ? If you do not respond to this question , I will have to go to the police . " There is not even 250 thousand , then the fact that Lohan is not inflated , not fresh or manager of Gazprom , Severstal , and cheated the man who lives by this that it breathes, noble , right? His shod . He said , "No, I will not answer that question." Mr. Vasiliev, really appeals to the police , and then comes Ms. Basner already the police with his lawyer Larissa Malkova and says that this picture she gave someone Aranson .

Thereafter, in the same police ... And it all started in 2009 , and the forgery of the picture, if I'm not mistaken , began to emerge in 2010. The police said , "All right . But , you see , someone Aranson, who lives in Estonia, sold the painting , the case is closed . " Vasilyeva hurt , like I said ... He was insulted and even in addition to money , I think money is not everything . Here's a shame that you have offended as Lohan.

Vasiliev - bulldog . He travels to Estonia. There it turns out that Mr. Aranson three judge that the fourth case ( there was, it seems , murder for hire , and something terrible ) collapsed. And this man is , allegedly sold the painting .

Thus all , Mr. Vasiliev said that you all can not find , you will never go out of bounds area , you know. Yes ? Meanwhile, it turns out that the same picture Grigorieva " restaurant ", which he had bought that exact same picture is stored in the " Russian museum " that it came from the collection Okuneva , and furthermore, that describe this thing just Ms. Basner , that is, she knew about it .

What happens next? What happens next is absolutely fantastic , because , as I said , knocking Vasiliev everywhere , everywhere can not find the truth , and here comes Bastrikin to Peter. Vasilyev begs to see him , waiting , indeed, a few hours. Well, then, once he breaks and tells the whole story . And there, I'm sorry, signs of an organized group of fraudsters who vparili this picture Mr. Vasiliev , of course, visible to the naked eye. And Bastrikin instructs this matter is already at a level where it is impossible to destroy the grassroots . And according to Mr. Vasilyev , first when he heard about the arrest Basner , that's when they heard about the arrest Basner . Incidentally, it is now released under house arrest.

Next I call the lawyer Ms. Basner , that's just the very Larissa Malkova and she tells me another version of the origin, as would have a revised version , which apparently now the investigation is going to stand. As I said , nothing is confirmed : this thing is not from the collection of General Timofeyev Aranson judged. Both Ms. Basner says ... I ask , "Why not call Ms. Basner Andrei Vasilyev , from where the picture? " And the lawyer says to me , " It's her right ." Well , I think this is an eloquent response that puts the record straight «i».

Then I say , "Oh, that's how it has turned out that , in fact , it was named the provenance of things , allegedly from the collection of General Timofeev , and that some Aranson , and he did it three convictions ," to which the lawyer tells me that's a history. Apparently, this is the last story that " You know , here , at the time Ms. Basner attended collection Timofeev , who bought the painting from burtsevskoy collection. She saw in this collection here this same picture, which was then called " The Paris Cafe". Then , some time later, after the death of General Timofeev , she came to his widow Borisovne Cyrus ( she designed the things in the Russian Museum). Ms. Basner saw that this picture is missing Grigorieva , she asked where she got to. Cyrus B. said there were still heirs , and so when this one Aranson someone brought Ms. Basner picture , she decided that this is the very part of the inheritance of relatives, which broke away from the collection of General Timofeev.

Excuse me, little problem is that it did not seem to jibe with reality. First, this thing has never been in the collection of General Timofeev Basner her there could not see . And this is , like, set - the heirs Timofeev asked. This item from the collection Okuneva - Basner it not only saw there , but also described . This thing has got to the Russian Museum , this thing has been in the vaults of the Russian Museum , then there is a very little amount of people knew that she is there , including saw Ms. Basner .

Mr. Aranson, judging by the fact that he wrote to Fontanka.ru , just to put it mildly , did not appear in Russia in terms of which protection says Ms. Basner . And me in this story ... Why am I so shocked this story ? Well, firstly, it is , of course, the classic story , such good about organized group that , well, there is in the spirit detectives Weiner , quite in the spirit of classic detectives.

Me that it is most interesting ? Two things. First, there is a general sociological picture, which is that in Russia, an insane amount of money , any left , any stolen money nouveau riche that create an excessive demand on the art market . That is a lot of people want to buy paintings, paintings and small. And, accordingly, this leads to the action of certain groups of persons who meet this demand through here so fake . And I think that , of course , this case ... Mr. Vasiliev just decided to dig Kubla , and he had the strength to dig this Kubla . And you know , I think , is why Ms. Basner silent, why she refused to answer Vasilyev , why was born the legend of Aranson (this is my personal belief ) ? Because , like, if she would call people who actually gave her this picture, then it will not be easier . And I think that a very large amount of any of our nouveau riche any managers now very scared , because they looked at what they have hanging on the walls , they looked at who signed certificates , and were horrified and thinking , they just hanging out. As one person said to me , being the owner of one of the largest Russian galleries, I just do not have the right to be named because he did not sanctioned the publication of this citation , he said , "At last , thank God . Finally started to catch people , because of which the whole is worth , "because besides offering in this market, sverhzakrytom market, which creates an opportunity for elegant fakes, frauds elegant , well, it already began to fear because there is already too many people understand what happens. It 's , like, my first consideration.

The second consideration . Of course, I was shocked by the amount of ... I deeply understand , say , the head of Hermitage Piotrowski , who wrote that it is a disgrace that venerable art critic and can be placed under house arrest . Totally agree : Ms. Basner - intelligent man , it can be under house arrest. Immediately the question is not to punish the person, and to find out how it was all organized.

But I certainly shocked the amount demshizy , which began to write " This is a new Magnitsky " with words such arguments were approximately as follows: " Once Ms. Basner is a daughter of the composer who wrote the song " Where the Motherland Begins " (well , it certainly , a great song , Shostakovich , I would say ), it can not participate in anything criminal . Bloody regime , hands off Basner ! " Moreover , it is remarkable that none of these blogs were not given itself the canvas , and what happened then?

We have , so to speak , is the same thing as a matter of Farber , when people ... There is a record on which man talking , negotiating the bribe , there is a video in which the person signs the certificate of acceptance , after which receives the money , have a signed certificate of acceptance , there is a sentence that says that this person has signed the acceptance certificate and gets the money . And this man said , "I - a village teacher , I did not sign the act of acceptance ." Looking into the eyes , said that he did not sign the acceptance certificate . Yes ? And everyone is screaming "How can you ? Shame! Trouble! "

And I have two terrible ideas . Because, firstly , it's creepy that compromises demshizu that it screams . Moreover, it compromises the entire Russian opposition when , not understanding at least about how this stuff works , you begin to shout " Bloody regime! " Regardless of who you are defending , there Politkovskaya's alleged killers or something this kind. Then anything you do not harm in the eyes of reasonable people , they do not harm most of the opposition , because reasonable people think , "Well, God , oh, any sane or not very very arrogant people - enough for him to come and scream that time I was arrested , then I'm not guilty , and you slide out . Well, maybe , really , bloody regime is better ? "

And the second . Because you know, God bless him there business Farber . There's actually Farber injured party contractor was Gorokhov - I somehow havent much sympathy for the contractor Gorokhov . Contractor - he is a contractor at its Gelendvagene there .

In this case, when they talk about that bloody regime , second Magnitsky , has a very specific man , sorry, name is Andrey Vasilyev , who no less respected than the same Elena Basner , say, at least , who devoted his life collecting artists. This is his life . He has also its reputation . Suddenly, it is called " servant 's murderous regime ."

You know, I 'll be honest : when I called Mr. Vasiliev , the first thing I heard , I heard a man in the tube , which is simple, here , was brought to the verge of a nervous breakdown , which never expected . What is he guilty? Only that he did not give up , that his 4 years led by the nose , some gang of 4 years , which vparil him as lohu fake picture , said: " We do not say where ," said , "You still get nothing " tell something about Aranson , even about something told . This man was everything this man struck his head wall. Now, therefore , our progressive community it says " And you - bloody regime and Basner - a new Magnitsky ."

Guys, well , how is it possible ? Think about what the person just now trampled into the mud. 4 years of its trampled in the dirt , I'm sorry , cops (well, not 4, but there are 2 from the time when the investigation goes) . Not the cops , and 4 years of its trampled into the mud ogany our law enforcement , and now , so our opposition .

http://echo.msk.ru/programs/code/1254106-echo/



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