Pull themselves out of reality

[Кирилл Сызранский]

to pull itself out of reality
On the cultural policy in Perm. improvised speech Boris Milgram and Marat Gelman on "Flaertiane" In Perm, as is known, has just completed an international documentary film festival "Flahertiana. Once at the banquet came to the Minister of Culture and Mass Communications of the Perm region Boris Milgram and Marat Gelman. Due to the situation that provoked the film critic Olga Sherwood, as well as, perhaps, and they wish - they were made with a few improvisational speeches to the press. And we, in the tradition of Robert Flaherty and actually "Polit.ru", publish the transcript of the conversation "as is". Document. Is there some "noise", but in life always happens. Noise of this - like the dust at the feet of elephants, do not see it at all. Oleg Popov

Boris Milgram: Something we get better. And so it seems not only to us but also the local economy, so we are aggressively trying to influence the development of culture in Perm Krai. We boldly decided to call itself a cultural capital. This is probably a utopia. But behind this attempt to escape from the impossible, a situation that we have the capital can only be in one place, and that only it can all dictate how to live and whether you want to do live. To overcome this myth and this reality is possible only if you pull yourself out of it. We are trying to make it happen. And, realizing this plan, I am pleased to welcome you to "Flaertiane-2009", because it is one of our events, one of our movements or one of the ways in which we have to show. Capital of Culture should have lots of endless activities, and one of them, to which we hold in high regard, which is much older than our present plan, which is already self-sufficient phenomenon - a "Flahertiana, a wonderful festival, a wonderful documentary film contest. And his inspiration Pasha Pechenkin once managed to do the impossible in a city that has not been the capital of documentary filmmaking. It is unlikely that this mass audience stayed for the documentary film, and he proved that it can be in this city. And it happened. In this city have come to the people who make movies, to them it was a pleasure. And then began to come critics, or with the creators have come to the critics and so on.

Retort: The process has started.

BM: Yes. Here, on our land began to dream documentary film. And now we have a little capital of documentary filmmaking. Then the little capital of modern art. And more, more, more, more. And so, we hope we will repair the breaches in the city, from which we can not say that the industry had gone, but it has fallen over the years that no longer contain it as an industrial city. City, who was in the post-industrial situation must cease to be depressed about this, rejoice and say: "There are other ways to apply yourself." Perhaps it could be and culture, and any other creative industries. And we are trying to implement it.

Q: The word "festivalizatsiya" very often used by journalists. This word entered the lexicon or prohibited? At any level, or not at all? Which sign?

BM: No, we now everywhere, in principle, are well accustomed.

Q: How did you manage to build a relationship with the government? Please tell.

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BM: No, everything is very simple. If I say that here in Perm, good power, you still smile and say: "It is clear, he had power." Here, in Perm is a really good power. What is it good? First - this is liberal thinking. Power comes to the fact that the solution must be found. It can be found from many, many, many offers. There is no one solution. But it must necessarily be found. If you do not formulate the dialogue, movement is impossible. This is the first. Second - the power to truly pragmatic. And this is very unexpected for me. I greatly enjoyed this, although I am not a pragmatist, as an artistic person. Authorities now realized that the most profitable investment - in culture, because the minimal movement brings the maximum effect.

Q: What's the benefit, as today it understands the power?

BM: See. I tell this story is not the first time. Five and a half - six years ago I made a proposal to lead this theater. I then lived and worked in Moscow. It so happens that I Chirkunov, governor of the Perm region, then a senator, was in the same plane. We were flying from Perm. I told him about this proposal. He tried to dissuade me, saying: "Well, why go out of Moscow? You will be able to do nothing. Then he asked me: "What is the most expensive film director?" I asked: "The most expensive where?" He said: "In the world". I called him Peter Stein, he then just after the "Oresteia" of Aeschylus, as it seemed, had the highest fees among theater directors. He said: "Oh, yes it is the same order of magnitude cheaper than basketball" Ural Great. Agree, the money is! "

Let me explain the story of the "Ural Great. Once Kuschenko Sergei, who now runs the basketball team of CSKA Moscow, established in Perm Ural Great ", then it was cheap. He bought the CSKA players, made them "Ural Great", has brought up. He created there the whole space, and today the remaining schools and so on. Today, these players are nemerenyh money. Today is cheaper to buy art, and from this to make space. But Kuschenko was one, and was one team. And we think that our team a little more, and we feel that we more powerful. In fact, while our process has just begun, and it may well be nowhere to move. But it still must go to make irreversible, and this is the main task. "But today - and that says a governor - the most profitable - to invest in art, because it returns with the investment ...

Question: How many years?

BM: Not how many. Today. Listen, now, a year has passed with the opening of the Museum of Modern Art. This year we have held, completely changing the attitude to culture, to Perm to Perm Territory. Today in "Der Spiegel" was published, where the first line is written (in German, we translate): "If you think that the cultural capital of Russia is in Moscow or St. Petersburg, you are mistaken. It is located in Perm. Since then begins an article in Der Spiegel. This is for the year. Year we lived on the budget, which all existed, and the year before.

Q: Now, you increase it?

BM: Now we will increase it. I very much count on it. And, I think that if we are on this budget increase develop an effective next year, then we will qualify for even greater investment is in the culture. That's as attachments, which are returned to bring.

Question: And, except for PR, what else is measured by the impact of your project?

BM: In addition to PR, firstly, change the environment. During this year conducted a large number of activities. They say that it was not so many young people, but I saw with my own eyes in many ways transformed the city. It was summer, have been specially assembled Vladimir Martynov, the ensemble Tatiana Grindenko, throat singing "Huurn-Huur-Tu", our chorus of "Mlada," Sasha Cheparukhin (project "Made in Perm '), and they did" Children Otters "- a new product Martynov Velimir Khlebnikov. Performance was in the Philharmonic Hall (by the way, ugly room, on the structure is not drawn to the order desires, which we have), and thousandth room, there could not enter. But the most amusing, that there could not go to those who got the wrong place. All lanes were clogged. As they listened to the music! It was executed masterpiece. Just a real masterpiece. As they listened, as they wanted! Such activities were many. People respond to that. People begin to live differently.

And then tell a wonderful story, which in the past two weeks I was greatly cheered. This is no longer a mystery, but still not much has been published. The following year we decided to open a residence. Residence in Europe, there is almost en masse, particularly in Germany, in France. Residence - the place where played grants for artists, film directors, choreographers, for different areas of artistic thought. Grants from two to six months in a place where the process is implemented. That is, for this to be a place, the resident must live there and should be a workshop or territory in which he would implement it: the music writing, recording, drawing their pictures, make install, etc. The proposal came to us from Kirill Serebrennikov, rather, by Vladislav Surkov, who heard the proposal Serebrennikova, sent it to us. It is more than a year ago. And then the president's administration would like to participate in this process, and, perhaps, we would be first. But the crisis came, and money for the residence was not given.

Now we have decided that we will do a residence in any case, even without federal funds. Naturally, we need the room where this residence would be implemented. We Marat, like, find some room, and, from our boundary, where it theoretically could be, and she, in general, approached. Location good, near the forest. A place - it is a prerequisite, for example, in Germany it is often held in castles. And then comes the construction business, which has a huge plan to build on the Kama River. The port is already moving, and at this point will be a huge residential area right at the Kama. Big, beautiful and already have a layout of this quarter. They invited me and show: there is a huge shop, where you can pull down all the walls, leaving only the pillars and ceilings, made of glass. And they say: "Let's do this residence. That is, they understand that it capitalizes their land. It will play on their business. That's how we act. That's how we move.

Now we create a design center. Its director was Artemy Lebedev. We hope that this design center will play a big role for our industry. Perhaps as a result, not only for our own. And we expect that the design center will undertake next year, our most important program - a program with the city. We want to transform the city. Reorganize - a long time, and certainly it will be done. But we want to transform. We wish him much influence. And with the help of this center, we expect to implement this program. I have a lot of talking. Marat, say something.

Q: No, no, no. Now the last question. Where did the city money if the industry has fallen?

BM: We live here, because we have oil and gas. In our region one-third of world reserves of potash, oil and gas. They are not in the city. Although Lukoil, which is owned in most part, socially responsible, very good working with us, but, in principle, the mining industry, which is not based in the city proper development of the city do not need. And only the city itself should be initiated, as well as any changes to the city to preserve itself as a major city. He is still one million. It is rather difficult, especially in recent times, when such people leave the cities. This is a problem we are trying to solve.

Marat Gelman: You can add? On the first question, about the fact that we're going to give. Boris may be a little emotional, but, in principle, correctly said that the main thing that we want to give - it is creative people. That is, people who will create a new economy to replace the old. But, probably, this result is to wait long. Therefore, each time getting larger budgets from the very mundane people under this very difficult. Therefore, we have a very simple scheme. You say "public relations". In fact, not "PR" and "rebranding". When a State declares its independence, though it is an internal process, for it is essential that it recognized the independence of neighboring countries. Therefore, in this sense, we call it is not PR, and rebranding, that is our ambition to be recognized around. It happened. The second, more important is what is called quality of life. The fact that our business, that is, governors, are accustomed to appeal to the notion of "welfare", that is, how many people receive the money. But if you go to sociologists and ask what is important for humans, it turns out that the notion of "quality of life" well-being - is an important part, but only part. Besides, in Russia, a situation that for state employees to live in Yekaterinburg and Perm is almost the same money. So when people ask: "Where do you want to live? What affects your desire to relocate? "- It appears that the quality leisure time - is at least 25%of quality of life. Nearby are the availability of quality health care and leisure. In this sense, we pereformatiruem relationship of culture and power. What state order in Russia gives more power culture? She said: "Draw, remove or write, what a good power, as we all well". We say: "No, the order must be different. Provide quality public recreation. This is the second after the rebranding.

Third - a cultural heritage. If today to analyze the tourist flow to Perm, suddenly turns out that half the people responding to the question "Why did you come?" Replied: "Perm gods. We want to look at this collection, about which we have heard a lot. If you ask any scientist, they say that they really did not Permian, it was a phenomenon common across the Urals and Trans-Urals. But there was a man, an ascetic, who collected it all, and they became "Perm gods. This was our cultural heritage, just as I do not know, Matisse was in the Pushkin Museum of cultural heritage of Russia. And it's cultural heritage, such as oil and gas, brings us income. Accordingly, the third, what we do - we create a new cultural heritage, which, obviously, will increase the tourist flow, will be our oil well.

Fourth - it is not even industry, because industry recover from the current state is impossible. Rather, the industrial potential. It is the problem of "Why?" Throughout the world, it is clear that this artist is a key figure in the beginning of XX century scientist was a key figure, which is one of invention changed the situation, moving his business. There is an artist, designer. Why is not the case the bond of production and the artist? For example, they produce some products, it is useless. Nearby there are artists who come up with a lot of things, but can not implement anything. Because those plant managers that exist today, understand that in the new situation they are no longer directors, do not correspond to this new situation. We are creating this design center, becoming the initiators of the Permian collections, which is not at the expense of enterprises, as director, even realizing the need, to resist innovation. We create innovative collection, which then implement in industry, technology.

Further, what else gets the edge? We call this: travel business. We create a system that attracts people. Example that I often quote, Cologne. Ludwig Museum, although the grant, but in fact revived the whole system of Cologne tourism due to the fact that before people arrived in Cologne, looked at the Cologne Cathedral (Europe small compared to us) and drove away. Appeared Ludwig Museum, and already people came, stayed at the hotel, looked at the Cologne Cathedral, the Ludwig Museum visitors. Accordingly, the entire infrastructure up and running.

And most importantly, our understanding of what is happening in Russia - in Russia, first gets a huge bonus. And this general trend, which began with Boris. What is happening in Russia? Yes, life is in Moscow. What will be tomorrow? Either the country will not, or life will be everywhere. Accordingly, we are the first who wanted to prove that life can not in Moscow. In this way we get a new stream of federal money. Already the day after we come to the representatives of the Ministry of Culture to discuss with us a special project of the Ministry of Culture, associated with Perm, both from the experimental platform of the future. We are going to be an innovative platform for those processes, which in any case take place in Russia, or Russia will not and it shrinks to Moscow. That is, we are the first, we are the best, and we want the best for the city, which was really in dire straits. Another 3 - 4 years ago was discussed that as the city of Perm-one million is not needed, and the people who serve LUKoil and Uralkali can deliver here in shifts. Already last week of the 14 universities that receive federal funding to state, our university won the contest. That is to Perm much attention, and for Russia as for supercentralized country is very important. Hence the name "Perm - Capital of Culture", in fact, "to translate" Perm - the first European city of Russia. We want them to become ...

BM: In the literal sense of the word, because Europe starts in Perm.

MG: Yes. Even today, if you look at Krasnoyarsk, Tomsk newspapers, all this is discussed, but why can not we? But we are confident that the energy route for us will work primarily on us. Second, Perm - Capital of Culture. What does this mean? We run three processes. What is capital? Capital - a place where people come. The museum, incidentally, there is less than a year ...

BM: I'm talking about the collection and the museum was established in the year.

MG: Yes, and last year there was an exhibition. The establishment of the museum was a year ago. But I just want to say that last year the balance of arrivals and departures in Perm from it was minus 7 thousand people, that is, negative 7 thousand. Today it is plus 500. Let 500, but still the difference is visible. Boria did not go to clubs, and I walk and I walk into a club, I stopped young people, shake hands and say: "We came because you started this program." For us this is a very important criterion. We are not going to declare that we have all the financial flows, all the cultural ... We just say that for us the first indication of the capital - a place where people come, not from leaving. This is the place where the adaptation is easy. I am now a journalist is very interesting to say. He interviewed Isahakyan and he said: "You know, when I arrived, I spent 10 years on, to become his in Perm.

BM: Do Hera Isahakyan.

MG: Yes, Gera - the head of our Opera and Ballet Theater. Right now there Edik Boyaca, and a year later he would be there own. That is the first sign of cultural capital - quickly become his. I came, I did something for the city, and you've already adopted, that is, people have fellowship. Second - a lot of cultural events. Well, few cultural events in the Perm. Therefore, the fact that someone called festivalizatsiey - it can be positively and negatively. We are still sealing these events, the energy of festivals. At a minimum, during these nine festivals, ie one and a half months Perm - Capital of Culture. A lot of different events. The next year will be 14 festivals a year later - 30. And then there will be no festivals, and events will remain. And people will argue: "But where will I go? It is interesting here is interesting ... "This is what we want. Festivals are not for festivals, and we are launching mechanism. Moreover, we are doing great, an important exhibition. Local cultural leaders know that come criticism. They are already doing their events. They are no longer associated with us, we could not funded. They just know that we want this to be seen leading critics, leading journalists. That is the second - we run the event-mechanism.

And the third - is a creative competition, that is the capital - a place where made creative career. There were several options. We have chosen the option to create the so-called flagship institution. A very good museum, a very good theater, a very good design center. Accordingly, those people who are here, they are in a difficult situation. We understand this. They either have to say: "Well, all we have to leave ..." Or they say: "And we will do our better, we will compete." Theaters are now at a serious situation. Competing for best actors, because there is strong competition. That is the third - we are launching a mechanism of competition, which is not merciful to all, so there are people who raise their voice against these innovations. They say: "No, let us keep our provincial benign situation." That is, someone loses, someone wins. It's true. I give an example. Two Permian artists involved: one in the large Venetian project dedicated to Marinetti, the other - in a major project in Moscow. This gives confidence Permian cultural figures that if they are worthy of this, then they have a chance to rise. For example, my museum bought two works from all different artists of the Permian, but not because they are the Permian, but because the good work. They came leading critics, for example, Juan Puntes, a leading curator of New York was there, participated in the exhibition "Vision". He brought here the classics of video art. At the same time he looked at the exhibition, which were in Perm.

I mean, that we are now launching the three pillars on which we stand - the people must come, the events should be much competition must be real.

And about pragmatism. We believe that pragmatism depends on what time scale you are taking. We take a sufficiently large time scale, but also not infinite. Three to five years. This is our pragmatism. But we are aware, perhaps, in contrast to other colleagues with whom we deal. The governor - a wonderful person, intelligent, able to read documents more than two pages. Typically governors documents more than two pages do not read. But still this is a governor, he is a man of this system, and we understand that every year he needs something to bring. In the first year we presented branding, have a huge effect, give more. In the next year we want to show future changes in the city. It will be every year. We are extremely pragmatic in the sense that we understand with whom we deal.

We are dealing with a society that does not believe anything that everything is skeptical. And Russia - a country of precedent, not a plan. That is, if, for example, to the Munich mayor can come with a well developed project, he will give it to experts, the experts will give a positive conclusion, he says: "Next". We are not working. We employ a system of precedents. Did - happened. Now we ourselves become a precedent. Presidential Administration, Ministry of Culture sent us people who try to study our experience to make Talmuds for other provinces. But there is still important that the strategy that we are doing here, in which we are convinced Chirkunov - a strategy sessions niche. For Russia it is a bit unusual strategy. She concludes that the niche itself is worth something. We say that we have cultural capital. For example, in Krasnoyarsk not agree with that, they too want to become a cultural capital. They already have, relatively speaking, it away. The niche itself is valuable, that is, once we have already stated, it gives us more strategy. We tell them: "Let's look for their niche." That is, a niche has a definite value. And the fact is that I now spend about 50%of the time in Perm ...

BM: Even more!

MG: But it's just in the last month it happened. Nearly 50%in Moscow. When I am in Moscow, that it was clear most of the time I spend on something that I'm negotiating with people who want to Perm. Moreover, these are people th-th, that is a very good level. "Marat, we want to Perm, we want to be part of this project." This project - the optimism, because, first, the culture may not be on the 13th band, but at least the second. Secondly, that life is not only in Moscow and throughout Russia. Thirdly, that the intellectual - is not indentured servants, and the main man. How are we? We also used that the oligarch - the main people in and around some gray advisers and so on. We have a different situation. Here in Perm (and I think it is a very important merit Chirkunov) a person who can produce the idea and protect it, is more important than the person who comes with a purse stuffed with cash. Chirkunov always says: "The money - not a problem if you understand what to do." That its importance. Relatively speaking, actually now Chirkunov is in a sense, a lobbyist for the future, which in Russia can not occur, all it prevents all: these circumstances, the political situation. We have here a special situation. I may be too snobbish say, but the point is that everyone today, when it is not obvious to everybody, will invest their energy in this project we will receive a hundredfold.

BM: That is Marat wants to say: "Join!"

MG: Join!

Question: When the design center will work?

MG: There were difficulties but, in principle, in mid-November. The Government's decision taken. Actually it turned out that it was difficult to create a new budget organization. This, perhaps, not very scary, but we spent on it for four months. Now the government's decision made, work begins. According to our plan in February, we show the first results.

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