He worked to earn some money initially by correspondence at the national University of the Arts, where he taught painting by correspondence and then at the Art Complex, where the painted landscape backdrops for rural clubs, but real life took place in the workshop. Since mid-1970 Chuikov participated in the apartment exhibitions, and since 1979 - a publication dedicated to the unofficial "Soviet art magazine" AZ ". Chuikov belongs to the circle of those in the first issue of "AZ" Philosopher Boris Groys termed as the "Moscow romantic conceptualism." But unlike many of his colleagues, "Soviet" and "political" is less interested Chuikov. For many years, consistently and methodically, he explores the internal perspective of art: the problem of painting, her deconstruction of the relation of illusion and reality, which is considered to become a business card wizard series "Windows". These issues are relevant to art today. The project mainly third Moscow Biennale artist will present an installation Split Identity.
Q: Are your parents seen your evolution - how they feel about it?
A: My father really believed in my talent, but talent beautiful, and very upset that I keep it vain and even, in his opinion, I will destroy. Yet, though he denounced in his writings abstract for me it is not pressed, because I believed that I work honestly and sincerely. Parents learned of the Higher Art, and mother, even some time in Malevich - the truth, I did it was never asked, and she is not remembered. Told only that we had before the war was Malevich's manuscript, which disappeared during the evacuation.
Q: You have often said that in his youth was important for you to search for beauty. What do you mean by the word "beauty"?
A: When I was in Surikov Institute, the most important in the painting was considered the "what", ie the plot. In opposition to this idea of what is important is not "what" and "how." Beauty we have learned from Western art - in my case I was guided by Cézanne, "blue" and "pink" by Picasso, Modigliani. I could write a small picture for months, I had to try all options for color and texture - it has degenerated into mannerism. In this case, I am very guarded himself, tried to no one else like. And it was a trap. Because the effects of fear - that means will not move. And suddenly I realized that I write so it is impossible, and clearly formulated for himself: no strain, no arbitrary colors. I started trying to do the bulk thing, but in these first works with the illusion of space volume does not work - should have been a plane as a reference to the amount earned, and the color should be simple, organic - the sky is blue, grass green. The main thing for me was the idea of simplicity, that is, away delights of shades, textures, etc., so that at the level of performance could have done it all. I have deliberately put themselves in rigid frames, and they were rescuing. It was at this moment, I felt free and began to write quickly and a lot. Ceychas for me beauty - it is clean, the easiest and shortest way solve the problem. As in mathematics. If the problem is fundamental and important, and the solution is minimal and convincing, and it is beautiful, and for all.
Q: As I understand it, that's when there were first "windows" become your business card?
A: In 1968 I was visiting a friend and leaving, I saw stacked on the stairs, the old window frames. I grabbed a couple and then took two of them work. The first "window" was written in the style of campy and surreal: at each leaf landscape - the sea, with trees and winter. And the next "window" marked a turning point in what I do. I like to put on the window frame landscape Aivazovsky. I was then and had no idea that I was working with the theory of Alberta - the picture as a window into the world. These words Alberti recalled later. First, the image appears, I embody it, and then begin to reflect on, and I find him an explanation. Combining painting - a window into the world and now the window - I ran into the reality and illusion. But it is this illusion is a window - it invites you to enter, and painting will not let me. That is, the picture is not a window into the world, and certainly, in any case, not only.
Q: As you entered the circle of Conceptual? I was told almost anecdotal story about you and the artist Victor Pivovarov: You were familiar with were drinking tea, listening to the Voice of America, but for a long time did not even think to ask each other's work.
A: That was in 1968. Our wives, who were familiar with, met on the bus. We started priyatelstvovat, but really as something without talking about art. I saw early Vitina work - if they were accurately written, rather pretentious and very similar to his children's illustrations. Why is he not interested in me, too, quite clear: I was the son of the academician, graduated from the Surikov Institute, and he about "imagined" that I can "do". Then Pivovarova moved. But a few years later he asked me to show him my work. Apparently, he heard some rumors. I invited him to the studio, Vic looked at me and said: "It's an adventure! Ilya need to call! "- And ran for Kabakov.
Q: "Windows" appeared in 1960, but the first time you showed them in a circle close to you on the views of people only in 1976.
A: Artists will learn only through the exhibition. The first exhibition - it's initiation. That one-day exhibition in the studio Leonid Sokov remains for me one of the brightest impressions of life, despite the fact that afterwards I had a lot of great important exhibitions. In addition, this exhibition has been associated with overcoming fear: at the entrance on duty "toptuny" which came photographed.
Q: Technically you are considered a conceptualist. Do you agree with this definition?
A: It's all relative. Many artists who are considered conceptualists, does not any conceptualists in terms of Western art - our artists have worked with other material from another tradition. Conceptualism involves not the creation myth, and his research, and Kabakov, for example, only, and is committed to creating a myth. From this perspective, I am a great conceptualist. After all I'm doing internal problems, the analysis of art. Kabakov also does it, but he is still recognized by the international community precisely because he created the myth of communal life. The first issue of "AZ", Boris Groys, explained why he joined several of Moscow artists generic term "conceptualism", so even with the epithet "romantic." First of all he had in mind a certain dreaminess and aspirations of these artists to infinity. I agree with, but I do not see any other parallels with that other artists made the circle.
Q: When your work appears in the text?
A: Since 1970, I began to redraw parts of posters and street stands, which, of course, were the letters. But the text in these works played a completely different role than in other works of Conceptual. In my case it was part of an image that refers to a particular item. I made the first in our circle of purely textual work. It was the object of "distant-close" at a workshop of juices. Notebook, the pages instead of the image that I gave the description of a close - what can be seen, and distant - that it is impossible to see or maybe, but not worth it, imagined, desired ... Descriptions, as in painting, were divided by genre: still life, battle painting, etc. For example, "near" in the genre of still life: "A table on the left of the entrance to the cafe on Suschevke, opposite the theater" forum ", at 7 pm . You can go and see. "Far" - the window sill in the apartment of Mr. C. (artist Alexander Kosolapov. - "ArtChronika") in New York. " This could imagine, but you can not see. But it turned out that absolutely no one was ready for such art. I saw this notebook skimmed, but not poring over, and now nobody can not even remember what the object was at the show.
Q: When and in connection with which introduced the concept of a fragment?
A: When I decided that with the "windows" to me everything is clear and interesting, I was seized by the horror that I can do nothing, and nothing else will do it. But at this moment I caught sight of poster exhibitions of Rembrandt, which was given a large piece of his work, with texture, with highlights on it. And suddenly I understood how it works is a piece! First, I started doing some fragments, and then moved on to the reconciliation of different languages and codes. Then came a work that consists of seven parts, fragments: my "window", paintings of Masaccio, the paintings of Matisse, football posters of the Soviet painter Konstantin Maximov "Sashka the tractor driver, street stand with the slogan" Go! ". And the last fragment of a fragment of the first fragment. I showed this series of young artist Maxim Kantor and his father. They looked and said: "Beautifully, of course, is powerful, but can also be a propaganda poster is as good as Masaccio, Masaccio, or the same shit." I tried to explain that at the level of practice, they are beautiful, and everything else - the human score. But failed.
Q: We have revised the myth of unofficial art. Whereas previously the generation of unofficial artists were treated as completely heroic, but today you can hear that, despite the conflict with the authorities, they had good earnings, and exhibitions abroad, their work bought by foreigners.
A: Actually this is really a myth. But today there is another myth. We really haunted: I have twice been summoned to the KGB, were not allowed to do an exhibition, but, on the other hand, it was time for us terribly comfortable greenhouse. All love each other, respected, and there was no censorship of the market, it is now.
Q: In connection with what you have an interest in the KGB?
A: At the end of 1970 in Paris, artist Igor Shelkovskiy met with a Swiss businessman Jacques Melkonyanom, who bought his work. First, Melkonian was running with some crazy ideas to open a coffee shop and show it works by Russian artists, but Igor had persuaded him to give money for a magazine. Shelkovskiy informed about this project Alik Sidorov and me. We, in turn, told it to juices, Rimma and Valery Gerlovin. This company came up with the name "AZ", and the first issue, Igor made of materials that took with him into exile after the exhibition in the workshop of juice in 1976. This first issue has caused a wild stimulation of our distinguished nonconformist. Edward Steinberg said: "Yes-ah, my site are doing." Then he refused to participate in the magazine, now says that we just did not take place. Alex was engaged in organizational work, and I contact with artists. Conversation with Igor was a tourist and student-Slavic. Some of the letters did not reach, they subsequently discovered in the KGB, I showed them one of the "tricks".
Q: I know that some of the artists whose works were published in the journal "AZ", then under pressure from the KGB and forced to write and send to the editor "AZ" official denials with a request not to publish more of these materials This "anti-Soviet edition.
About
: Failure, in some way, was from me - verbally. The KGB called me twice. For the first time in 1979, a hangover in the morning I telephoned a man who identified himself as Alexei Ivanovich, said he was from the State Security Committee and would like me to talk.
- Come to the hotel "Moscow" at four o'clock, I'll be in a gray coat, - he said.
I hung up and thought: "What the hell? Why should I go, where we will go together to a restaurant? Most likely, I was photographed, and then will submit these photos as evidence of my cooperation with authorities. " In general, I decided not to go, but after half an hour after the appointed time, he called again and said:
- Why, Ivan Semenovich, why do not you come?
I replied:
- Well, I agree to meet with you, but let it be officially!
- Oh, indeed! - He said with exasperation. - I wanted to do, as it is convenient to you, but if you do not want, then come to the reception!
Q: You took the famous "Blue house" - mod mansion next to the KGB?
A: No, in a building on Lubyanka Square. "Alexey" I was greeted and led to his study.
- As a father? - He asked me. - He is now in session academy? Then we sat down, he offered me a smoke, the ashtray was not, and he turned a bag of paper, and then got down to business:
- Ivan Semenovich, recently your name appears frequently in the foreign sources, and is used in anti-Soviet purposes.
After that, he showed me a magazine "AZ". I said that I can not control some of the processes - in my studio often people come and watch, sometimes taking pictures of my work, and then what they do with these photos, I do not know. He looked at me and said:
- Could not you talk.
And then I realized that it was recruiting. The KGB thought I was the son of the academician, accidentally fallen into "bad company" got scared and agree to cooperate with them.
Q: What is the first time you are not required to write any failures.
A: The second time I strongly invited to the KGB in 1986. I am prepared, Alex Sidorov gave me a little book by Vladimir Albrecht "How to behave during interrogations." But when I told them again told the story that I can not control the audience, who make pictures of my work, they nodded and showed me two letters - one of mine is to Shelkovskaya, and the second - a letter from New York to work in Moscow, American. In his letter, I talked to Igor about fellow artists and incidents in connection with the magazine, who said what he did. The second was suggested to Moscow to get our American work, "and we are them and then push the good, that's Norman Dodge had just bought a good job Chuikova for 6 th and the money went to a magazine" AZ ". That is, it turned out that I was not only an organizer, but also the sponsor of the magazine. The KGB demanded from me a written refusal to cooperate with the magazine. I refused, saying he did not know how they will later use this paper. "You somehow do not care what you use in the most heinous anti-Soviet purposes, and it bothers!" - They rebelled. I walked away, but after a while they will call me back with threats, and asked whether I write failure. I called Igor and asked not to publish material about me in the next issue. "It's too late", - said Igor. "Well, well!" - I replied.
Q: How do you think your work seen by today's audiences?
A: I always thought that I was rational and intuitive artist, and understandable to an extent that sometimes wanted to do something pozakovyristee. But recently I saw the program "School for Scandal," in which leading Dunya Smirnova and collector Igor Markin in one voice said that I was so strange, so strange artist. I do not understand it's because I do not understand. As for the audience - I think he's always right. Not in its course, interpretations of art, and that he can always turn away and leave.
http://www.artchronika.ru/item.asp?id=1673
04.05.2011, 10:55
Ivan Chuikov: "I always thought I was an artist-friendly"
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